A Protestant only chit chat about anything and everything. (Jesus, gospel)

[porkchop]

Originally Posted by slabbey06

Let's see...my favorites. I love Jim and Elizabeth Elliot, George Mueller, Hudson Taylor, Amy Charmichael, Patricia St. John (she also wrote wonderful Christian stories for children) ... I love Horatios Spafford too. "It is well" is one of my favorites. I love Elizabeth Prentiss's hymn "More Love to Thee, O Christ." She also wrote a book called "Stepping Heavenward" that's one of my all time favorites.

Ive got Amy Charmichaels book, its a wonderful story. Havent heard of the others though. I liked the sound of the one you mentioned before, a lady wrote a book bout her husbands times in Eaucador? I think thats right? it sounded interesting, i think you mentioned it on another thread, whats the name of the book, id like to get it.
I love to read about hymnwriters and how they were inspired, as i play the piano and the hymns every sunday, its nce to know whats behind it.

[*Paul*]

This is a quote from early church teacher Athanasius, look at his opinion on true baptism, how it should follow proper teaching first so that baptism might come together with faith. You would think these were the words of a baptist.

Discourse 2 Against the Arians

I mean Baptism; for if the consecration is given to us into the Name of Father and Son, and they do not confess a true Father, because they deny what is from Him and like His Essence, and deny also the true Son, and name another of their own framing as created out of nothing, is not the rite administered by them altogether empty and unprofitable, making a show, but in reality being no help towards religion? For the Arians do not baptize into Father and Son, but into Creator and creature, and into Maker and work. And as a creature is other than the Son, so the Baptism, which is supposed to be given by them, is other than the truth, though they pretend to name the Name of the Father and the Son, because of the words of Scripture, For not he who simply says, 'O Lord,' gives Baptism; but he who with the Name has also the right faith. On this account therefore our Saviour also did not simply command to baptize, but first says, 'Teach;' then thus: 'Baptize into the Name of Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost;' that the right faith might follow upon learning, and together with faith might come the consecration of Baptism.

[Sola*5]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

This is a quote from early church teacher Athanasius, look at his opinion on true baptism, how it should follow proper teaching first so that baptism might come together with faith. You would think these were the words of a baptist.

Discourse 2 Against the Arians

I mean Baptism; for if the consecration is given to us into the Name of Father and Son, and they do not confess a true Father, because they deny what is from Him and like His Essence, and deny also the true Son, and name another of their own framing as created out of nothing, is not the rite administered by them altogether empty and unprofitable, making a show, but in reality being no help towards religion? For the Arians do not baptize into Father and Son, but into Creator and creature, and into Maker and work. And as a creature is other than the Son, so the Baptism, which is supposed to be given by them, is other than the truth, though they pretend to name the Name of the Father and the Son, because of the words of Scripture, For not he who simply says, 'O Lord,' gives Baptism; but he who with the Name has also the right faith. On this account therefore our Saviour also did not simply command to baptize, but first says, 'Teach;' then thus: 'Baptize into the Name of Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost;' that the right faith might follow upon learning, and together with faith might come the consecration of Baptism.

That kind of rules out infant baptism in this case, I have read through that particular document to check the context to see whether Athanasius was talking about a special case like new converts or something but he makes no distinctions.
I have also read that a a fair few early church teachers or fathers were baptises as adults even though they had Christian parents, that is very significant too.
It seems that the church fathers from the little i have read, particularly those before the before the mid 400s are over roman catholicised and much of what they say supports baptist and protestant doctrine too.
Still they are more Catholic than anything else.

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by Sola*5

That kind of rules out infant baptism in this case, I have read through that particular document to check the context to see whether Athanasius was talking about a special case like new converts or something but he makes no distinctions.

Me too, I thought at first he may have been speaking of the Paulinians but they were not mentioned.

I have also read that a a fair few early church teachers or fathers were baptised as adults even though they had Christian parents, that is very significant too.

Really? I'll have to look into that.

It seems that the church fathers from the little i have read, particularly those before the before the mid 400s are over roman catholicised and much of what they say supports baptist and protestant doctrine too.

I have read a fair few of their works now though I am still under-read in that area but there hasn't been a significant amount that I disagree with,I tend to focus on the pre-nicean area though or those from that time, I have only read Augustine and some of Gregory of Nyssa from the post nicean era.