Religious Education Forum  

Welcome Guest to ReligiousForums.com . You are currently not registered. When you become registered you will be able to interact with our large base of already registered users discussing topics. Some annoying Ads will also disappear when you register. Registering doesn't cost a thing and only takes a few seconds. We provide areas to chat and debate all World Religions. Please go to our register page!
Home Who's Online Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Religious Education Forum / Everything But the Kitchen Sink / Political Debates
Sitemap Popular RF Forums REGISTER Search Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #661  
Old 01-03-2011, 04:06 PM
Bismillah's Avatar
Bismillah Offline
Religion: Islam
Title:Submit
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,212
Frubals: 370
Bismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowed
Default

The point of this debate has long diverged from its original purpose and it is my view that nothing new will be gleaned of it. It has come to represent, in my mind, the renewal of decades long oppression of the Iraqi people at the hands of an indifferent and often times brutal U.S government with the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Like it or not, the blood of all these innocents stains the hands of every American politician and American who does not speak out against the treatment of these people.
__________________
They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah refuses except to perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it. Al-Qur'an 9:32
Reply With Quote
  #662  
Old 01-03-2011, 04:24 PM
dmgdnooc's Avatar
dmgdnooc Offline
Religion: Christian
Title:Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sth Australia
Gender: Male
Posts: 613
Frubals: 70
dmgdnooc is a Frubal Whoredmgdnooc is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mestemia View Post
Wait, so you are telling me that you are basing your whole argument on an arbitrary comment in an article written for security of Europe?
Seriously?
Hells bells, there is absolutely nothing in the article about how or where they got their number.

It is nothing more than a side comment to help bolster the urgency of security.

Surely you have not based your entire emotional rant on that one single off hand comment?
I referred you to the document that enunciates the European Union's approved security strategy, and expected you to be able to google from there. Fail, eh?
 
It is not 'an article' or 'single off-hand comment', it is the EU's highest level policy document and was drafted under the responsibility of Javier Solana. It has been approved by the European Parliament as the base on which the EU's security measures are founded.
That is why I styled it as a 'reputable source'.
 
You could also have googled and found many estimates of the ratio of civilian casualties in the conflict in Iraq. You would have found many published figures from various other reputable sources that put the figure between 60 and 80 percent. And if you had read them you would have found that they are estimates of the casualties in the 'shooting' war.
 
However I confidently apply the 90% figure to the overall conflict on the basis of the additional (and only civilian) casualties of the sanctions campaign.
 
I can see now that you need to be carefully spoon-fed and led by the hand.
My apologies for over-estimating you.

__________________
A blind man does not fear snakes. Zatoichi
Reply With Quote
  #663  
Old 01-03-2011, 05:50 PM
Mestemia's Avatar
Mestemia Offline
Religion: Apathetic Agnostic
Title:Advocatus Diaboli
Shield of Valour: Awarded for heroic and decisive victory in the battlefield of debate - Issue reason:  Shield of the Veteran: For continued service and valued contribution over the years - Issue reason:  Shield of 30,000 Thoughts: Awarded for contributing 30,000 posts - Issue reason: For 30,000 poasts. Congrats Mes! 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michiana
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,726
Frubals: 2373
Mestemia just wants a cigarette after being fruballedMestemia just wants a cigarette after being fruballed
Mestemia just wants a cigarette after being fruballedMestemia just wants a cigarette after being fruballedMestemia just wants a cigarette after being fruballedMestemia just wants a cigarette after being fruballedMestemia just wants a cigarette after being fruballedMestemia just wants a cigarette after being fruballed
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmgdnooc View Post
I referred you to the document that enunciates the European Union's approved security strategy, and expected you to be able to google from there. Fail, eh?

Fail?
I am not going to do your homework.
So if there is a fail here, it will be yours.
For not dong your own homework.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmgdnooc View Post
It is not 'an article' or 'single off-hand comment', it is the EU's highest level policy document and was drafted under the responsibility of Javier Solana. It has been approved by the European Parliament as the base on which the EU's security measures are founded.
That is why I styled it as a 'reputable source'.
It is nothing more than a second hand comment made out of the blue in a sad attempt to help bolster the point of the articles main goal.

Now if that is something you consider a reputable source....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmgdnooc View Post
You could also have googled and found many estimates of the ratio of civilian casualties in the conflict in Iraq. You would have found many published figures from various other reputable sources that put the figure between 60 and 80 percent. And if you had read them you would have found that they are estimates of the casualties in the 'shooting' war.
 
However I confidently apply the 90% figure to the overall conflict on the basis of the additional (and only civilian) casualties of the sanctions campaign.
 
I can see now that you need to be carefully spoon-fed and led by the hand.
My apologies for over-estimating you.
I can see that you are merely going to make unsubstantiated claims and then claim that it is every one else who is responsible for doing your homework.

Your sad attempt at childish insult is rather comical, but it does nothing to help your credibility.

Now since it is obvious that your sources are extremely questionable at best and just flat out ratification at worst, I shall leave you to fly back to your flock claiming victory.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #664  
Old 01-04-2011, 02:34 AM
kai's Avatar
kai Offline
Religion: the Mundane
Title:ragamuffin
Shield of Peace: Awarded for exceptional effort in upholding and promoting the peace - Issue reason:  Shield of 10,000 Thoughts: Awarded for contributing 10,000 posts - Issue reason: For Reaching the 10,000 post mark! 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: the cuckoos nest
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,610
Frubals: 1166
kai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubals
kai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubalskai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubalskai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubalskai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubals
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abibi View Post
The point of this debate has long diverged from its original purpose and it is my view that nothing new will be gleaned of it. It has come to represent, in my mind, the renewal of decades long oppression of the Iraqi people at the hands of an indifferent and often times brutal U.S government with the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Like it or not, the blood of all these innocents stains the hands of every American politician and American who does not speak out against the treatment of these people.
Except that the US government doesn't rule Iraq, Iraqis do US withdrawal is taking place, and everyone should be aware if not actually speaking out, of the horrendous difficulties the Iraqis have to face on a daily basis in that country
Reply With Quote
  #665  
Old 01-04-2011, 08:58 AM
MSI64's Avatar
MSI64 Offline
Title:Sophmore Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 126
Frubals: 21
MSI64 invested heavily in the foreign frubal economy
Default

The Iraq War documents leak is the unsanctioned disclosure of a collection of 391,832 United States Army field reports, also called the Iraq War Logs, of the Iraq War from 2004 to 2009 to several international media organizations and published on the Internet by WikiLeaks on 22 October 2010. The files record 66,081 civilian deaths out of 109,000 recorded deaths.


The Iraq Body Count project (IBC) figure of 94,902 — 103,549 civilian deaths reported in English-language media (including Arabic media translated into English) up to December 2009 includes civilian deaths due to coalition and insurgent military action, sectarian violence and increased criminal violence.

the figures vary wildly and cannot be verified properly.
Reply With Quote
  #666  
Old 01-04-2011, 09:22 AM
Dezzie's Avatar
Dezzie Offline
Religion: God Is Within Myself
Title:Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hawaii
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,680
Frubals: 123
Dezzie stuffs frubals into couch cushions, along with the catsDezzie stuffs frubals into couch cushions, along with the catsDezzie stuffs frubals into couch cushions, along with the cats
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alceste View Post
I watched it. Infuriating. Makes me wish I believed in hell so I could be reassured that the entire US military will be going there to roast for all eternity.
Well this comment is a little much don't you think? I would hope you don't mean EVERY person in the US Military... I am in the US Military and I would never act the way these people supposedly did in this video... I certainly do not deserve to "roast" in Hell, as you yourself has put it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alceste View Post
If, on the other hand, you think war is actually about teams of armed men fighting one another for noble causes, you do need to watch this. It'll help rectify your ignorance.
I agree with this statement.

I didn't actually watch the video because I am at work. I can't watch it here since youtube is blocked, but it sounds completely horrifying... I don't know if I want to watch it either...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #667  
Old 01-04-2011, 11:28 AM
dallas1125's Avatar
dallas1125 Offline
Religion: LDS
Title:Covert Operative
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Idaho/Utah
Gender: Male
Posts: 593
Frubals: 35
dallas1125 is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzie View Post
I didn't actually watch the video because I am at work. I can't watch it here since youtube is blocked, but it sounds completely horrifying... I don't know if I want to watch it either...
Its a bigger deal than it should be. It was a tragic incident but it was blown way out of proportion, just like the ground zero mosque. I highly recommend the unedited version too.
Reply With Quote
  #668  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:37 PM
Bismillah's Avatar
Bismillah Offline
Religion: Islam
Title:Submit
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,212
Frubals: 370
Bismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowedBismillah forgot to mention that frubals can be harmful if swallowed
Default

Quote:
Except that the US government doesn't rule Iraq, Iraqis do US withdrawal is taking place, and everyone should be aware if not actually speaking out, of the horrendous difficulties the Iraqis have to face on a daily basis in that country
That doesn't mean anything in the end game does it kai? Innocents still died for nothing more than warmongering and any attempts to go "look look democracy" does not detract from their suffering and continual suffering.

MS164: The reason body counts are so vague is because the U.S government decided not to tally up the Iraqi dead for public use.
__________________
They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah refuses except to perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it. Al-Qur'an 9:32
Reply With Quote
  #669  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:45 PM
kai's Avatar
kai Offline
Religion: the Mundane
Title:ragamuffin
Shield of Peace: Awarded for exceptional effort in upholding and promoting the peace - Issue reason:  Shield of 10,000 Thoughts: Awarded for contributing 10,000 posts - Issue reason: For Reaching the 10,000 post mark! 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: the cuckoos nest
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,610
Frubals: 1166
kai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubals
kai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubalskai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubalskai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubalskai is plotting to invade another country to drill for frubals
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abibi View Post
That doesn't mean anything in the end game does it kai? Innocents still died for nothing more than warmongering and any attempts to go "look look democracy" does not detract from their suffering and continual suffering.

What is the end game for the insurgency Abibi ? The continuing murder of Iraqis by Iraqis doesn't detract from the suffering of the Iraqis and doesnt bode well for the future
MS164: The reason body counts are so vague is because the U.S government decided not to tally up the Iraqi dead for public use.
Last year over 1000 policemen were killed 2,635 people were killed in bombings averaging 2 a day which counted for 66 % of all civilian deaths, there were 113 civilian deaths by US/Iraqi forces.

and some sources quote that as the lowest since the invasion.

i think its obvious what Iraqis are dealing with here is a systematic killing brought on by their brothers and sisters in the ummah executing and blowing to pieces their own people for quasi political reasons.

Civilian deaths from violence in 2010 :: Iraq Body Count

the US does tally up the Iraqi dead just as various other sources do. what amazes me is the lack of realisation or acceptance of how many Muslims in Iraq are killed by fellow Muslims.
Reply With Quote
  #670  
Old 01-06-2011, 07:40 AM
Religion: Islam
Title:Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morroco
Gender: Female
Posts: 953
Frubals: 73
fatima_bintu_islam is a Frubal Whorefatima_bintu_islam is a Frubal Whore
Default

I read the fist pages of the thread and what I noticed was a bit strange :

In the beginning everyone was against the video, shouting against it etc .. And at the very first moment a Muslim came and said , yea US soldiers suck, everyone turned against him !!

It remind me of a golden rule which is adressed to Muslims but Non-Muslims could try to use it too : Quran ( 4 : 135)

135. O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well-Acquainted with what you do.

I have to say that objectivity is a real lacking trait in this thread, no offense meant
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 PM.


Copyright 2014 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.