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View Poll Results: How do you feel about the surge
It is a bad idea. It will only make things worse in the long run. 15 62.50%
It is a good idea. We can save Afghanistan and stave off terrorism. 5 20.83%
I don't know what you're taking about. 1 4.17%
I don't care. 3 12.50%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 12-05-2009, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by xkatz View Post
And how is that different from any other gov't? There are always corrupt people.
Exactly, so when a government is corrupt even by the usual standards of politicians, what does that tell you? What kind of success have we had in the past at propping up corrupt governments that can't make it on their own? And how many friends did we make backing Diem and Somoza and Pinochet?
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2009, 04:57 PM
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I think it's horrible news. We should pull out straight away, this war isn't accomplishing anything, and we've got plenty of domestic problems to sort out.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2009, 05:17 PM
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Obama is dumber than Bush because he didn't learn anything from those that came before him.
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  #44  
Old 12-05-2009, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dogsgod View Post
Obama is dumber than Bush because he didn't learn anything from those that came before him.
and bush did?
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  #45  
Old 12-05-2009, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
I'm a little suspicious of the poll, since I couldn't find any explanation of how it was taken or the margin of error. In a country with few telephones, how do pollsters gather data? Do these data reflect primarily the opinions of a select group of well-off people and/or people living in areas secured by the NATO/US troops?It was conducted by the US pollsters D3 Systems. The fieldwork was carried out by the Afghan Centre for Socio-Economic and Opinion Research in Kabul.

Face-to-face interviews were carried out with 1,534 Afghans in all of the country's 34 provinces between 30 December 2008 and 12 January 2009. The margin of error is + or – 2.5%.

This is the fourth such BBC/ABC/ARD poll in the country, following the first news-sponsored survey ever conducted in Afghanistan at the end of 2005, a second at the end of 2006 and another at the end of 2007. from the link



If we take the poll at face value, though, we see Afghans were already getting weary of foreign troops nearly a year ago when the poll was taken. I'm in favor of crushing the Taliban. My concern is how to do it, and I admit I don't know. What I do know is that the Afghans are a mountain people with a proclivity to violence, and even if they don't want the Taliban it doesn't mean they do want a permanent occupation by Western troops. which country or leader has even hinted at a permenant "occupation " by western troops?There is still a substantial proportion of the population that strongly identifies with traditional Islamic an tribal values. There are still clan leaders and warlords who would like to overthrow Karzai regardless of whether they want the Taliban back. The Karzai government is by all accounts riddled with corruption. There is enormous potential for protracted fighting. And despite all this talk of withdrawing in 18 months, it seems that a permanent occupation is what we were planning under Bush and are still planning. Obama has not said we will withdraw in 18 months; he has said we will begin to draw down our troop level in 18 months, and that's not the same thing at all. Neither is

Obama's plan could work, but it's risky, and it comes at a time when public opinion in the U.S. and abroad is already turning against the war.


I didn't say it was "another Vietnam." I'm pointing out that we are in a situation similar to the one we were in 35 years ago. We are increasing our involvement in a land war in Asia for the purposes of (a) propping up a weak, corrupt and unpopular government and (b) eliminating an enemy which is both determined and elusive. Eight years into this war, we're not much closer to eliminating the Taliban than we were at the start. but you are not in a similar situation are you? what the heck are you talking about? this is a UN backed operation with the involvement of over 40 nations and the Taliban do not have popular support from the people .

I'd like to see the Taliban eliminated, but I'm not overly optimistic. A bombing campaign would undoubtedly make the Western powers more and more unpopular. A permanent presence there of our troops is unlikely to be popular in the long run. Sending in death squads to brutally eliminate the opposition as we did unsuccessfully in Vietnam and Nicaragua could easily backfire, too. I'm not sure what the best plan is, and maybe Obama's plan is the best plan. I'm just not convinced. We don't really know exactly what they're planning.


Why yes, Kai. Yes, I do. In fact, every time I see uniformed personnel, whether it's a Veterans Day parade or a Boy Scout jamboree, I foam at the mouth and scream Oh, my God, it's Vietnam all over again!!!! It's not easy to articulate the multiple exclamation points, but I can manage it, because I'm just that damned hysterical. Thanks for asking.
your welcome but i had to ask.
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  #46  
Old 12-05-2009, 10:14 PM
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Hi Seyorni,

Quote:
Billions for "defense," nothing for domestic welfare
Why would you say something so incredibly ignorant? We spend more money on entitlements and education than defense in every budget.
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  #47  
Old 12-05-2009, 10:18 PM
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What I loved about Obama's speech is he destroyed any rationale from the left that we should not be there. The delivery of the speech sucked, but after reading the text of the speech I think his argument is pretty close to flawless (except for the 18 month timeline).
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  #48  
Old 12-05-2009, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Stocks View Post
What I loved about Obama's speech is he destroyed any rationale from the left that we should not be there. The delivery of the speech sucked, but after reading the text of the speech I think his argument is pretty close to flawless (except for the 18 month timeline).


i think the 18 months timeline was a warning to the Afghan government that they have to get their act together.
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  #49  
Old 12-05-2009, 11:04 PM
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Hi Seyorni,



Why would you say something so incredibly ignorant? We spend more money on entitlements and education than defense in every budget.
The pie chart below is the government view of the budget. This is a distortion of how our income tax dollars are spent because it includes Trust Funds (e.g., Social Security, Medicare tax), and the expenses of past military spending are not distinguished from nonmilitary spending. For a more accurate representation of how your Federal income tax dollar is really spent, see the large chart (Bottom)


These figures are from an analysis of detailed tables in the “Analytical Perspectives” book of the Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2009. The figures are federal funds, which do not include trust funds — such as Social Security — that are raised and spent separately from income taxes.
“Past military” represents veterans’ benefits plus 80% of the interest on the debt.
The Federal Pie Chart

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  #50  
Old 12-05-2009, 11:51 PM
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that's all? is it all about money that you concern about? do you expect the pain they caused is going to vanish just like that when USA government stops spending its money on war in Middle East?





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