Affirmative Action (morals, choices, choice, hell, America)

[Mr Spinkles]

Here's my take: if you look at the issue with a group mentality (i.e. blacks vs. whites vs. hispanics etc.) you could argue that affirmative action is fair, as it evens the playing field and attempts to 'make up' for past discrimination.

On the other hand, if you look at affirmative action with an individual mentality (i.e. John vs. Lanita vs. Pablo etc.) affirmative action is most definitely unfair, as Pablo might get hired for the job even though John is more qualified, simply because Pablo belongs to a group.

Perhaps part of the reason some whites resent affirmative action is because they lack the group mentality required to see that it is fair in some ways (besides the KKK, few whites consider themselves part of 'white America' or refer to 'white rights'). I do not see myself as a 'white person' I just see myself as 'me'. I am distinct and unique, and to classify me as part of a larger group who share a similar ethnicity would be to devalue my individuality. I do not think of my friend Melanie as 'my black friend' I simply think of her as my friend, Melanie.

So it is easy to see how difficult it would be for someone with an individual mentality to accept the fairness of affirmative action, since it discriminates based on race (hence the so-called 'reverse discrimination').

And now I will open up the floor for some discussion......

[Fra.Morelia]

the white male is the new victim, that simple. i suppose one can talk about what goes around comes around or something, but it sucks to be us.

[Runt]

I wouldn't quite go as far as to say that the white male is a "victim"... in my opinion what is happening right now is not so much reverse discrimination, but the removal of certain "white privileges": the rights, privileges, and opportunities that whites never actually EARNED, but obtained simply by being members of the dominant majority... things that we don't even think about, things that we take for granted, things we don't even think twice about even in our "racially aware" society.

Taking privileges away that we came to expect as our "due" may seem like reverse discrimination... and for a little while it may actually be that way. However, there is a reason for those quotas: the number of educated members of minorities vs members of the majority being admitted into colleges is not proportionate to the number of total educated members of the majority to total educated members of the minorty. Until that ratio becomes proportionate NATURALLY (i.e. without the need for quotas), whites will just have to "deal" with reverse discrimination.

Besides, we STILL enjoy more privileges than our black and hispanic counterparts:

"I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals,the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge," I will be facing a person of my race.

If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones." http://www.utoronto.ca/acc/events/peggy1.htm

[Fra.Morelia]

i could not agree more with the removal of unwarrented privlages. i just want to know, what with all the agonizing yowling about equality, why they are giving these privlages to others. hardly equal. we find ourselves in mortal dread of saying the wrong thing and losing our jobs while our co workers can say whatever they want about us. i became a rascist when i espoused pride in my Irish heritage. that was white supremacy. working for the governmanet, i am not aloud to be vocal in my pride in my heritage, lest someone decide that i don't deserve it and take my rank from me because i love my family and my heritage. that's just plain jacked. i have been called a cracker, a honkey, and numerous other epithets to foul to say here. and all my superiors said was that i had to understand where he was coming from.
i adore you and your commentary runt, but it really does suck to be us right now.
what i want to see is EQUALITY, not enforced tolerance. what they ar doing is this:breeding a new era of resentment and intolerance. by kicking our legs out from under us, they are ticking a LOT of us off. men i know who were incredibly tolerant have started to seethe with racial tension. i would say it is not working, and thus should be stopped.

[Runt]

I agree with you... I want to see equality rather than enforced tolerance... the problem is that how else can their be equality? We have tried to ignore racial issues in the hopes that they would "go away". They didn't. We have tried to incorproate "other cultures" into "our" artistic heritage; all that created was even more of an "us" vs "them" atmosphere. Any movie or commercial that features an African American gets a reputation for either being marketed just for that group, or for TRYING to break the barriers of race by shoving people other than whites into the mass media. The effects of such a thing are slow, and minimal. But that doesn't mean we are going to stop; that would be wrong. At least there is small progress while we try to force everyone to be tolerant; if we stopped THAT,

So what are we trying now? We are trying to strip whites of the privileges that we have always regarded as our undeniable rights. While this does help the targeted populations, it also serves another, less desirable function. It angers whites, once again driving the wedge between "us" and "them".

But what other option do we have? Which situation do you think will produce true equality faster? Ignoring race issues in the hopes that everyone will just "forget" that they ever thought of one another as different (we become aware of race the moment we learn about slavery in elementary school) and in the meantime allowing inequality to fester while we pretend that it will simply "go away"? Or make actual attempts to lessen inequality, even if it temporarily disadvantages the majority?

[Fra.Morelia]

Well, the mingling of our youth is the only real hope we have. true tolerance is a pipe dream. there are always going to be fools.on both sides. the youth culture is leaning heavily towards black culture, even for white youth. i personally think it is cultural rape, but it may still be our only hope. hell it scares me more than anything, not because white kids are 'acting black' but because we are assimilating theri culture and thus stripping it of much of ti's heart. the whole situation is simply twisted beyond belief. ignoring it may not fix it, but some one wiser than me needs to do something because affirmative action is destroying what small progress we had.

[Runt]

I agree, assimilation is a scary thing. It is like... culture becomes mass produced. A whole other kind of steriotype. Like Irish culture, I have to admit. "Drinking and fighting" -- a lot of the youth of today look at Irish culture as just that. They ignore everything else and only take what is ALREADY prominant in our culture, rather than relishing true NEW cultural influences.

[Fra.Morelia]

indeed. the stereotyping is brutal. the irish are suppossed to drink and fight, so they drink and fight. but we are also poets, warriors, and dancers with few peers. tho i confess i cannot dance and reserve it for whe I am cleaning my room to Duran Duran or something equally cheesy.

[Runt]

LOL, I'm even cheesier... I DO Irish dance!

[Fra.Morelia]

D'oh! hush! they'll hear you. then they'l be dancing whilst drinking and fighting....