Religion and Politics (Jesus, punishment, Earth, Kingdom, birth control)

[LeaderNotFollower]

Just to start off the debate:

A lot of republicans are pro-life and pro-death penalty.
A lot of democrats are pro-choice and anti-death penalty.

This just does not make sense to me. Republicans (a good deal of them being Christian) are usually concerned with saving 'unborn' fetuses and preserving the sanctity of life. Do criminals not also fall under the category of living? By supporting the death penalty, aren't republicans violating the sanctity of life?

Now as for democrats: fetuses are not sacred, until they commit a crime? Democrats believe a woman should be able to abort her fetus, a practice many people believe is murder. Yet when a person on death row, not worthy of keeping his life, a lot guiltier and more sinnful then the fetus, is about to be killed, the democrats throw up their arms.

I believe both parties have their beliefs mixed up. I am actually in favor of the death penalty and abortion. I think it needs to be a lot more legal than it is right now. But this just puts me right in the middle of two hot debates, unable to take sides. Just wondering what others thought of my little observance.

[Ardhanariswar]

being hindu, i believe in reincarnation. so the aborted baby gets to have another better life with a mother that does want him.

as for the death penalty, i believe that its God who judges and punishes criminals accordingly. on the other hand, do we really want our tax money to nourish and shelter these people? sure, well. i dunno, i dont pay taxes yet (im too young). oh well. everyone who is sorry deserves a second chance. you cant mess with God's will.

plus, the U.S.'s judicial system is fallible. just look at O.J. Simpson.


i think people shouldnt brand themselves (nor should you stereotype). some people had differeing views. i dunno.

[LCMS Sprecher]

Abortion is murder plain and simple. A human being comes into this world as soon as the egg is fertilized and it becomes an embryo. Now abortion advocates get around this by saying people are not people until later on in the embryo's life. If this was the case, I could go around and kill people because I viewed them as not being people (say I set my age of a "real" person at thirty). As far as capital punishment, it is just punishment for those who have stolen life from others.

[Corban]

I will whole heartedly agree with your observation that most politicians are mixed up in thier views. I am against abortion and again the death penalty however i do not see that as a contradiction. Taking innocent life is wrong,as with the case of abortion. but sometimes taking life is justified, like in the case of self defense or with capital punishment when someone else has killed an innocent person, has committed murder of innocent blood, then their blood should be forfeit to pay the price of their actions. an unborn fetus is innocent and killing it is wrong.

[Ardhanariswar]

Abortion is murder plain and simple. A human being comes into this world as soon as the egg is fertilized and it becomes an embryo. Now abortion advocates get around this by saying people are not people until later on in the embryo's life. If this was the case, I could go around and kill people because I viewed them as not being people (say I set my age of a "real" person at thirty). As far as capital punishment, it is just punishment for those who have stolen life from others.

wow, thats like the opposite of me. well.. sorta.
i believe that capital punishment and abortion is wrong. but young teens are going to concieve. advocate birth control instead. whatever. i mean. if people had medical problems, they should do it. making it legal will make it safer. but because im hindu, i believe that the soul gets reborn, instead of going off to purgatory in Christianity's case.

as for the deathpenality, no. i believe that God should decided the judgement. people are going to get abortions whether its legal or not, but we can stop the death penalty. afterall, didnt jesus say turn the other cheek? if we kill the murderer, wont we be murderers? murder is not justified. i guess.

i may seem two faced. but i dont believe in abortion. but it should still be legal............................................. .......... you can stop it by preaching i guess.

[Runt]

I think it is simply a differing view of the status of the one being killed:

For Republicans it is a question of "how innocent or guilty is the one being killed?" A baby is innocent and has no say in the matter. It didn't "chose" to be born to a mother who did not want it. An innocent baby should not be killed. A killer on the other hand is guility and made a choice. He knew in advance that his actions meant his life was forfeit if he was caught and he chose to kill anyway; therefore he "chose" to die.

For Democrats it is more a question of "how physically and mentally developed is the one being killed". A fetus is at a stage in its development where physically and mentally it is not too different than an animal. We kill animals when they are inconvenient. A fully grown adult, however, is a "real human". He thinks and has had a life. He may have people who depend on him. And then he might be an innocent who is merely a victim to a flawed justice system.

[LCMS Sprecher]

What does abortion avoid though? There are other ways of finding a proper home for unwanted children, primarily through foster care. The death penalty can find Biblical root in Genesis 9:6 which reads as follows:

"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man." (NIV)

In the Lutheran Church we recognize that there are two kingdoms, the right and the left. The right being the kingdom of heaven and the left being the earthly kingdom. The kingdom of the left has been given power by the kingdom of the right (God) to carry out measures to protect society and our world. Such measures include wars of defense, dealing with criminals, taxes etc... (i.e. let Caeser's be Caeser's). Therefore, I believe, in congruence with my church, that God has given the government the right to carry out capital punishment.

[LeaderNotFollower]

Good points.

LCMS and Corban:

I suppose we will never be able to come to an agreement because we are getting right back to the age old heart of the abortion debate. I believe that a fetus does not have its own life until its umbilical is cut. Now take a look at this definition:
An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
I would say that this definition is discriptive of a fetus, right? Well this is actually the The American Heritage Dictionary definition of a parasite. Just something to think about.

Now as for the death penalty, Gerani makes a good point when they mention that the death penalty takes the 'judgement' out of Gods hands and puts it into human hands. Is the murder justified if we are doing all the judging ourselves. Plus there is always a chance, as some have mentioned, that an innocent has been found guilty. A good movie to watch on the topic - "The Life of David Gale."

For those of you that are taking the Republican viewpoint (abortion - bad/death penalty - good), you feel that the murder of an adult on death row is justified, but abortion isn't. What about all the good uses abortion has? Rape, incest, danger to mother, diseased child? Would you rather these children suffer in some underfunded orphanage or die shortly after their birth? Because the fetus has not yet had its own life, life is not being taken away from it. It is only a biological mass until it starts eating and breathing by itself. I am not saying that abortion should be used as a form of birth control. People need to accept some responsibility for their lives. But there is no doubt in my mind that abortion needs to be legal everywhere, for the situations that really require it. As for the death penalty, well I'm actually still a little shaky on that one.

Would it surprise anyone that I am a registered Republican?

[LeaderNotFollower]

"Therefore, I believe, in congruence with my church, that God has given the government the right to carry out capital punishment. "

LCMS,

Instead of believing this because your church told you to, why don't you believe it because you want to?

[LCMS Sprecher]

I do believe it because I want to. I know... that's hard to believe.