Sick Of Blaming Bush (moral, Earth, tradition, America, moral)

[Scuba Pete]

Spinkles,

I DO hold the voters responsible for every single death in Iraq today! I feel that they have put my 16 year old son in jeapardy when they finally invoke the draft. ANYONE who voted for Bush is as equally guilty of murder as he is.

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Spinkles,

I DO hold the voters responsible for every single death in Iraq today! I feel that they have put my 16 year old son in jeapardy when they finally invoke the draft. ANYONE who voted for Bush is as equally guilty of murder as he is.

I'm sorry to hear that you have reason to fear for your son's safety, but that statement is a bit harsh, no?

But if you want to take the long view, the complacency exhibited by most members of the public for generations has allowed vested interests to govern civic virtue almost completely.

Are we all murderers? Have you bought a computer with components manufactured from materials pirated from the DRC for instance? (For conversations sake I'd like to point out that genocide has been occuring in the congo for years and hardly anyone has batted an eyelid).

Besides John Kerry would've had his wars, and murders, and somebody's kids would be in the firing line.

[Scuba Pete]

Death is harsh. Selling WAR to America with lies based on FEAR and HATE which leads to the deaths of innocents is unconscionable. Bush is no more than a serial murderer backed by the religious right (which is neither). He only uses God to increase his power base. THAT is the Mark of the Beast in my book: masquerading evil for good.

But one day, I will tell you how I really feel, and will try not to hold back so much...

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

masquerading evil for good.

THAT my friend is politics. In fact if I ever write a Politics For Idiots (or MPs as we call them in Britain) that will most definitely be included in the opening paragraph.

Originally Posted by NetDoc

But one day, I will tell you how I really feel, and will try not to hold back so much...

Ah well I'm glad you're so restrained.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

What evidence? All they had were people just like you saying that no such thing could be true. That ain't evidence my friend.

Professional evidence, such as font, formal style, signature format, etc. with those of documents at the time. The fonts were proven to come from Mircrosoft Word, not from one of the standard typewriters at the time. It was a bunch of hard, cold facts there.

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Comparing the dishonesty of the Bush camp to the Kerry camp is like comparing WWII to the invasion of Grenada.

This is an example of the superlatives the thread refers to. How much can we really compare? Kerry hasn't had the chance to do some of the things Bush has, he's never been president. What I do know, is that Kerry couldn't maintain many consistent positions. I had trouble knowing even what he stood for. Bush, even though I couldn't agree with him, was definate, even if he was wrong. Bush's camp never posited, and then defended, documents about Kerry. Then again, this wasn't Kerry's men (but neither were many of the heinious things done by the other side Bush's men).

It is especially disturbing that rather than agree how terrible it is, you keep simply saying, "but this is worse..." Why do that? Please don't take any offense at this, but it's like a party instinct, and it's used to justify worse actions (like many "conservative's" responses to Abu Grhaib). Rather than say that something is excessive, or that there was a wrong committed in one's camp, the mentality simply requires pointing fingers at another camp and saying "that's worse." As far as I'm concerned the Democrats and Republicans were just about equally dirty...just the Democrats employed the most dishonest example in the election. Saying "He's worse" just makes me wag my head.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Death is harsh. Selling WAR to America with lies based on FEAR and HATE which leads to the deaths of innocents is unconscionable. Bush is no more than a serial murderer backed by the religious right (which is neither). He only uses God to increase his power base. THAT is the Mark of the Beast in my book: masquerading evil for good.

But one day, I will tell you how I really feel, and will try not to hold back so much...

Here is actually a spot where Kerry is more dishonest than Bush. He voted for this war. He said he would question the moral values of anyone who didn't in the face of the election. When he started losing ground to Dean in the election, he took Dean's position and started assaulting the moral values of those who voted for the war. I find this whole fair-weather war mentality revolting. It's worse than Bush's jingoism, because it reduces war to exclusively a political game. You can support it for your image, and deny it for your image. It's revolting and dishonest.

Fortunately, I have a feeling you didn't support the war then flip . That applies to Kerry (and many people I do know did that ) there.

[Scuba Pete]

I'm waiting for the "Flip Flop" argument any moment.

He was TOLD by our president that there WERE WMDs all over the place. He Voted to go to was as a LAST POSSIBLE RESORT, not the first choice. The entire senate and congress were decieved by a meglomaniac hell bent on war to shift the focus from him having NO OSAMA.

I respect a man who after being given ADDITIONAL information can change his mind, not caring how others perceive him. I have NO RESPECT for a man who invents and manipulates information to intentionally mislead an entire nation into war.

[Mr Spinkles]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

He was TOLD by our president that there WERE WMDs all over the place.

Give me a break. That Iraq had WMD was nothing new--our intelligence agencies had been saying that for years.

Myth #3: NIE judgments were news to Congress:

Over the past fifteen years our assessments on Iraq WMD issues have been presented routinely to six different congressional committees including the two oversight committees, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. To the best of my knowledge, prior to this NIE, these committees never came back to us with a concern of bias or an assertion that we had gotten it wrong.

From: http://www.odci.gov/nic/articles_iraq_wmd.htm

I believe the good Senator Kerry was on one of the committees mentioned.