Free Market vs. Government Control

[Shadow Wolf]

The only real way that would be feasible is if the government reinsured the insurance companies at little to no cost. I have no idea what type of margins that Auto insurance companies are working with, but I'm fairly confident that they are already pricing their products about as low as they can while still getting a reasonable return. The do have claims to pay, and the premium is going to have to cover them - you can't forget about that.

It would take quite abit of change for my idea to be implemented, but I do feel the government needs to do something if they want to make car insurance a legal requirement.
Also, I have been driving for 5 years now, and have not had one ticket or wreck, and have not made one deduction. Thus, the company that insures me has made alot of money. The same with my parents who have not had any tickets for the decades they have drove, and have not had one wreck that was there fault.
I would be opposed to such a method, but one such way of collecting money for a national government issued insurance would be to simple take it out of ones paycheck. Allthough there are holes with that idea, as it implies no taxed paychecks = no money, among other things, but it is an idea for the sake of discussion.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Luke Wolf

Also, I have been driving for 5 years now, and have not had one ticket or wreck, and have not made one deduction. Thus, the company that insures me has made alot of money. The same with my parents who have not had any tickets for the decades they have drove, and have not had one wreck that was there fault.

And if you were paying into a "pay to fix my car after a wreck" fund, then you would have a point. You are paying for insurance. Regardless of whether or not you needed to make a claim, they provided everything that you paid them for.

(There were people who got a lot more out of the company than they put in - that's how insurance works - you pool your risks. At the end of the day the company didn't come out all that much on top - probably just a reasonable return for their investors).

Most people don't understand that - and it doesn't help that our "health insurance" system isn't really insurance - it's more of a "medical cost payment program". That muddies the water.

[Mathematician]

The government would blow the market out of the water if the state was removed from the equation. People like to pretend like the market is some invisible, natural force controlled mutually by consumers and producers. It's not. It's a select group of people deciding what they can make the most money off of. The consumers and workers are a liability.

People getting involved and actually deciding what they want to produce and consume is a much healthier alternative.

But I took this poll to mean a representative, capitalist government.

[lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Random

For those who (foolishly, I believe) voted that the Market should control fully its own prices, answer me: who controls the Market then?

If anyone says "the Consumer", I'll scream...

Governments are useless if they DON'T control prices fully, especially commodities. But then I'm a libertarian socialist, and the State I envision is one radically different to the one most are used to under illusory "Democracy".

Well it would be self regulatory now wouldn't it? Take example the Playstation 3 due to low demand of said product the price has come down, there was no government interference. Also currently the price of crude oil (where we get our gas from) is regulated by the government and we all see how well that's going now don't we? I don't know maybe I should of paid more attention in economics class or something but record profits and record prices only mean one thing to me, prices are too high at the consumer level. Now if oil was regulated by the market this horrible inflation probably would'nt have ever happened as somebody else would come in and out sell the other companies with cheaper oil thus forcing the other companies to compete just like Sony is being forced to compete with Microsoft by lowering it's prices (see the over inflated price tag got cut down because of the market, an example of self regulation) and who wins in that scenario? The consumer, why? Because the consumer had a choice in the market and forced the market to regulate itself. (hears a faint scream coming over the horizon sometime after posting this) As for insurance, anything required by the government should be provided by the government at no profit, because currently insurance is nothing more than a legalized Mafia protection racket, in case you are all unaware of local happenings with insurance in Mississippi it is the most horrendous display policy abuse I've ever witnessed in most cases the insurance company out right refusing to up hold there contract. Even the Governor being refused his rightful claim from HIS insurance company, now I'm not a big fan of any politician especially a republican but I think Haley Barbour a former attorney and current governor of Mississippi is more than capable of reading his insurance policy and understanding it. Now that those insurance companies are being dragged into court kicking a screaming and being forced to cough up they decided to get "even" and increase deductibles and interest, in my opinion they have no right, they knew the risk and that's why they are there. The same year that Katrina happened and the following year the insurance companies also made considerable profits, leading everyone in southern Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama to hate and distrust ANY insurance company with the word State in there name. Where as if the required insurance was provided by the government itself policies would have been paid (at least more of them paid) according to the terms of the policy and as it would be non profit, insurance costs would be significantly lower as well.

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

"The invisible hand".

Ever read any Joseph Stiglitz?

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

Anyone remember the long lines at the gas pumps back in the 1970's? Gasoline prices are soaring right now. I don't see any long lines because we don't have price controls. I guess I would rather pay more for an unlimited easy suppy of oil or healthcare for that matter.

Rubbish. You don't see any long lines because the OPEC nations are pumping enough supply.

Maybe you forgot that OPEC shut off the spigot in the 70s? I know you're old enough to have lived through that, as am I.

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by soyleche

"The invisible hand".

Originally Posted by Random

Correct. Furbals.

The "invisible hand" is an effect, It is not a control.

How do you two imagine it controls the market?

[Mathematician]

Originally Posted by lamplighter

Well it would be self regulatory now wouldn't it? Take example the Playstation 3 due to low demand of said product the price has come down, there was no government interference. Also currently the price of crude oil (where we get our gas from) is regulated by the government and we all see how well that's going now don't we? I don't know maybe I should of paid more attention in economics class or something but record profits and record prices only mean one thing to me, prices are too high at the consumer level. Now if oil was regulated by the market this horrible inflation probably would'nt have ever happened as somebody else would come in and out sell the other companies with cheaper oil thus forcing the other companies to compete just like Sony is being forced to compete with Microsoft by lowering it's prices (see the over inflated price tag got cut down because of the market, an example of self regulation) and who wins in that scenario? The consumer, why? Because the consumer had a choice in the market and forced the market to regulate itself. (hears a faint scream coming over the horizon sometime after posting this) As for insurance, anything required by the government should be provided by the government at no profit, because currently insurance is nothing more than a legalized Mafia protection racket, in case you are all unaware of local happenings with insurance in Mississippi it is the most horrendous display policy abuse I've ever witnessed in most cases the insurance company out right refusing to up hold there contract. Even the Governor being refused his rightful claim from HIS insurance company, now I'm not a big fan of any politician especially a republican but I think Haley Barbour a former attorney and current governor of Mississippi is more than capable of reading his insurance policy and understanding it. Now that those insurance companies are being dragged into court kicking a screaming and being forced to cough up they decided to get "even" and increase deductibles and interest, in my opinion they have no right, they knew the risk and that's why they are there. The same year that Katrina happened and the following year the insurance companies also made considerable profits, leading everyone in southern Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama to hate and distrust ANY insurance company with the word State in there name. Where as if the required insurance was provided by the government itself policies would have been paid (at least more of them paid) according to the terms of the policy and as it would be non profit, insurance costs would be significantly lower as well.

The problem is, we have Ron Paul worshipers who would blow a gasket every time they learned their tax money is going towards helping other people's lives recover.

The government and business owners are in bed together. They always have been; always will be. Some regulation is even used by corporations to snub about small competition! That's why we need to quickly move towards democratizing corporations and recognizing that there does exist a mutual contract between private enterprise and the community.

People think the market functions because it gives us a lot of stuff relatively quickly. Big deal. I'll go out of my altruistic mode and say I want more. There are problems with almost every private enterprise that could be resolved if the consumers and workers just got a vote on the matter. Not to mention a lot of resources go towards cheaper goods just because there's a market of wealth disparity. If you want to see the beauty of the market, look at retail. Gamestop has a policy that if you don't meet 10% quotas, you get fired. This has really screwed over the workers and consumers, but it continues to be a policy just 'cuz it racks in profits. I've heard horror stories of District Managers at Blockbuster hiring store managers right out of the job market instead of promoting someone who worked at Blockbuster for 10+ years just because it would be cheaper. And let's not forget artificial demand. Sony and Microsoft love it when people are literally crying because they have to pre-order their console. They could produce more, but that means less publicity. 300 consoles left is a lot catchier than "more are on their way!"

The problem with government is that it's run like a corporation and not a democracy. If the teachers and parents controlled their public schools and not administrative bureaucracy, I'd be willing to bet we'd see a major shift from crappy education.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

The "invisible hand" is an effect, It is not a control.

How do you two imagine it controls the market?

The "invisible hand" is the effect of everybody and nobody controling the market at the same time.

[Mathematician]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

The "invisible hand" is the effect of everybody and nobody controling the market at the same time.

Some fingers [<1%] just happen to be bigger than the others -- a lot bigger.