Why shouldn't the economy be run democratically? (hell, America, pagan)

[GeneCosta]

Businesses are not protected by the United States constitution, but the people are. If we're so proud of our democracy, why not expand it further to meet the needs of the community?

[Reverend Rick]

Gene, why should the American people be dependant on the government? Sink or swim is a good motivator to succeed. Walking a high wire without a safety net would be another example.

Successful people look at the government as the problem, not the solution.

Giving people handouts sounds humane, but giving people a level of comfort that they are satisfied with is doing them a disservice.

If I ran the country, no one would go to bed hungry or cold. If you want your own apartment with cable internet service, you will be leaving your home every day to pay for it.

We don't need huge government buildings full of offices and employees to decide who receives assistance and who does not. We need shelters that feed, clothe, bathe, and house them from the cold. Anyone could stop in and have a meal if their hungry.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

Businesses are not protected by the United States constitution, but the people are. If we're so proud of our democracy, why not expand it further to meet the needs of the community?

Could you expand on that? I don't understand what you are asking.

[ALifetimeToWaitFor....]

Businesses are made up by individuals you have the right to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Aside from that the hinderences the government already puts on our firms is getting close to the insane. In my opinion the government puts way too many restrictions on various industries; including small business'. Not to mention the amount of money spend on these regulatory agencies its just ridiculous from my point of view.

[Reverend Rick]

Originally Posted by ALifetimeToWaitFor....

Businesses are made up by individuals you have the right to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Aside from that the hinderences the government already puts on our firms is getting close to the insane. In my opinion the government puts way too many restrictions on various industries; including small business'. Not to mention the amount of money spend on these regulatory agencies its just ridiculous from my point of view.

That's why most small businesses fail. You have to have a business plan where you do not live off the income of your business for at least several years. Most people work their business and have a job in the beginning, or have a huge bank roll to live on.

The second big mistake is when a business takes off, not to expand your lifestyle or increase the size of your business to quick. There are always lean times ahead that has to be funded.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

Gene, why should the American people be dependant on the government?

Who said anything about government dependance? Why is it that every comment regarding democracy or socialism immediately must be interpreted as dependance upon the government?

And lets get this clear, the government is US. So what you're really objecting to, here, is people being dependant upon other people. Yet this is in fact the very definition of a community, and of the purpose of human society. Humans socialize because they need each other. And the band together to form communities because they are happier, healthier, and safer that way. Whereas a collection of individuals who do not wish to help anyone but themselves is not a community, nor even a society. And I'm getting tired of the greedy, selfish, jerks among us using our society to their own advantage, and then whining immediately when anyone dares suggest that they have an abligation to give something back to their fellow humans: the very people they will happily exploit to their own benefit.

Greed is not good. And it is not socially acceptable, or healthy, contrary to the lies and propaganda of the current selfish exploiters among us, and their TV blowhards.

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

Sink or swim is a good motivator to succeed.

So is the barrel of a gun. Fear of death motivates people to do a lot, but it sure is a hell of a way to have to live! Course, if it's YOU holding the gun, then it's probably a pretty nice way to live. It's kinda fun making those weak fools dance for their milkbone biscuits, isn't it? And that rush of power is almost physical! Like feeling the euphoria of heroin spreading out all through your body from the point of the needle ...

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

Walking a high wire without a safety net would be another example.

Yeah! There's another healthy way for people to live ... especially if they're up there by the force of the fear of death.

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

Successful people look at the government as the problem, not the solution.

That's because to "successful people" the government represents all those unsuccessful people. You know, the ones that they've been exploiting to become so "successful". Those people who keep wanting their money back. And their land back. And their opportunities back, and their freedom back, and their health back, and their futures back ... all the stuff the "successful people" have been successfully taking away from them.

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

Giving people handouts sounds humane, but giving people a level of comfort that they are satisfied with is doing them a disservice.

That's right. We should whip them so that they will produce more, and let them die if they can't take it!

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

We don't need huge government buildings full of offices and employees to decide who receives assistance and who does not. We need shelters that feed, clothe, bathe, and house them from the cold. Anyone could stop in and have a meal if their hungry.

But who's going to pay for this? Are you going to force people to work for you before you feed them? And who's going to oversee all that work, who's going to pay for the overseers? You can't let the poor oversee themselves, can you? They might get to like it. Won't you have to make these places "unpleasant" so that people don't take a liking to them? And anyway, at this point haven't you then become the "government" that you so dispise? Only it sounds like you want to be a totalitarian dictator kind of government, to me, being that you know all about how people should be living and thinking and what they should be doing and not doing.

[GeneCosta]

Giving people handouts sounds humane, but giving people a level of comfort that they are satisfied with is doing them a disservice.

The United States Constitution recognizes that life and community welfare are no more privileges than speech and religion. All citizens of this country [and in the larger scheme the world] should take part in the sharing of food, health care, clothes, education, and if a job has been sought, good pay. This is exactly why I posted this thread. With a socialist economy everyone won' be making the same income, so I fail to see where the lack of incentive arguement stems from. Doctors would still be payed more than janitors, and scientists more than mechanics. However, all people would be allowed to live comfortably. Instead of the average American worrying about transportation or health, he can concentrate on achieving nonessentials.

If the economy was democratized, what problems will the community face? So a few thousand Americans won't be able to make as big a profit as they would have by exploiting their domestic and foreign workers, wrecking the environment [and consequently affecting public health], and wrapping their fingers on the government?

What's "fair" to competition isn't necessarily fair to people. We the consumers and workers have just as much say in capital as business owners. Our government produces the greenbacks that fill their wallets and protect their investments, and our government is run by all of us. Anyone who thinks they are completely responcible for their own wealth is being ridiculous.

Paris Hilton is a good card to draw from, an [apparently] properly functioning human being who puts out no effort and makes million because of her lineage. Why do people not realize the opposite is true, that someone who puts out effort can make little because of their lineage?

[GeneCosta]

Plus, a lot of the problems we see with our current government are a result of little R republicanism. With a more direct democracy approach, the rich have no one to pay off. The people are a lot better at knowing what they want than rogue representatives. The stupid "liberal," "conservative" divide would be abolished.