Hijacking Judaism? (Jesus Christ, ritual, moral, Messiah, salvation)

[Djamila]

Oh wow, in my mind Lubavitcher is something completely different from what I read about this Rebbe man. I remember only that Jakov Finci barred any Lubavitcher followers from participating in the 500 Years of Sephardic Jews in Sarajevo festival a few years ago. Apparently its understood here as trying to turn Bosnian Jews into "returnees" and spread a particularly intolerant interpretation of Judaism.

Any truth in the fears in your point of view?

[Ody]

Originally Posted by Djamila

Oh wow, in my mind Lubavitcher is something completely different from what I read about this Rebbe man. I remember only that Jakov Finci barred any Lubavitcher followers from participating in the 500 Years of Sephardic Jews in Sarajevo festival a few years ago. Apparently its understood here as trying to turn Bosnian Jews into "returnees" and spread a particularly intolerant interpretation of Judaism.

Any truth in the fears in your point of view?

Returnees? Making Aliyah is not the chief of Chabad concerns for the Jew what so ever, what Chabad cares most about is bringing Moshiach to our time, through thier constant 'mitzvah' campaigns.

Intolerant? I fail to see how how Chabad is such

Often, when asked what remains to be done to bring Moshiach (the Jewish Messiah), Rabbi Schneerson answered that we need to perform "acts of goodness and kindness",

At one time, Rabbi Schneerson issued a call to every Jew: "Even if you are not fully committed to a Torah life, do something. Begin with a mitzvah ("commandment") - any mitzvah; its value will not be diminished by the fact that there are others which you are not prepared to do". He believed that even one act of goodness and kindness is incomparable.

Lubavitchers are generally stereotyped by thier fellow Jew. One common mistake is that 'Chabadniks all believe Schneerson is the Moshiach and that this an official Chabad view. That couldn't be farther from the truth, in fact this is against the official views of the Chabad Lubavitcher movement and only taken as a view point of a small minority that in the end hid thier views from the Chabad leadership (at risk of penaltys of loss of association)or split of from the Chabad Lubavitcher movement. they are quite a vocal minority and many Misnagdnim hype this faction out of general fear and dislike to the 'odd' 'overtly exuberant' 'outwarldy pious dress' of the Hasidic movement in general, which both groups Misnagdnim and Hasidim have always had a contentous relationship since the time of the Ba'al Shem Tov, and due to the fact Chabad-Lubavitch is the generally most outspoken and determined to get the word of
Orthodox Hasidim out to the world. The overwhelming growth of the movement probably set off Misnagdim worries as well, which view Hasidic Judaism as a foolish lie filled heresy to a saddly great degree. Though the Hasidic/Misnagdnim rivalry is probably more of an Ashkenazi thing I suppose and irrelevant to Bosnia, maybe the views portrayed by anti-Chabadniks where popular with Jakov Finci? Sorry for the rambling, and I hoped I answered your question atleast partially.

[Ody]

Originally Posted by Djamila

Any truth in the fears in your point of view?

Not really, but then again I am not to sure on how much control Chabad HQ has over overseas enters and Emissaries.

[Djamila]

Thanks for your post and your time, Alan!

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Djamila

And as for historical revisionism? I haven't even "envisioned" anything to claim has been "revisioned". I took quotes from Israeli leaders and gave my views on the questions I asked.

It seems there is more than one variety of Zionism as well. Not all Zionism depends on unjust treatment of others.

[Djamila]

I don't think you can really call it Zionism if it does, Booko. In Europe, the term Zionism has become synonymous with Jewish nationalism, in the negative, supremicist sense. And while these beliefs, these leaders, and these policies do exist - I don't think Zionist is the term we can really use for them?

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Djamila

I don't think you can really call it Zionism if it does, Booko. In Europe, the term Zionism has become synonymous with Jewish nationalism, in the negative, supremicist sense. And while these beliefs, these leaders, and these policies do exist - I don't think Zionist is the term we can really use for them?

I saw a most interesting documentary a few weeks back called "The Other Zionists." These people are all Israeli citizens, who went there as Zionists. They want to create a nation for Jews, but NOT on the backs of anyone. They decry the unjust treatment of others as being not in accordance with Jewish principles, and not terribly wise in terms of furthering the aims of having a Jewish state.

They call themselves Zionists. I don't know what else you'd call them.

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by Booko

I saw a most interesting documentary a few weeks back called "The Other Zionists." These people are all Israeli citizens, who went there as Zionists. They want to create a nation for Jews, but NOT on the backs of anyone. They decry the unjust treatment of others as being not in accordance with Jewish principles, and not terribly wise in terms of furthering the aims of having a Jewish state.

They call themselves Zionists. I don't know what else you'd call them.

I'm aware of many such groups.

You know if you're in a room with someone who is doing something very silly, you cringe with embarrassment for them? We call that second-hand embarrassement.

Well these groups give me second-hand pride.

[kai]

how does zionism compare with the umma
Some modern Islamists use the term "Islamic Umma" or "Muslim Umma" to refer to all the people in the lands and countries where Muslims predominantly reside, and which were once under the control of the Islamic Caliphate. They thus include non-Muslim minorities as members of the umma. When they talk of unifying the "Islamic Umma" they would include these non-Muslims, as citizens of the Islamic Umma, living peacefully with their own respective religions, subject to certain specific conditions. See Dhimmi for a full discussion of this concept. Other Islamists accept the full equality of all citizens in a putative future Islamic state, regardless of their religion. In either case, shariah (Islamic law) would apply to the citizens of the state. Ummah is the worldwide community of Muslims. wiki
is the wish to create a muslim coutry that wasnt previously muslim and impose sharia any different than the concept zionism seriously as a nonjew non muslim i see a lot of similarities