Hijacking Judaism? (Jesus Christ, ritual, moral, Messiah, salvation)

[Ody]

Originally Posted by Djamila

As for the rest, I never said or implied any of it. In fact, through relaying my experience in the Youth Council, I said specifically and explicitly the exact opposite. ".

Hence the edits, my fault for not taking a break from my HW.

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by ‡Âlãn‡

Hence the editions, reading to fast leads to rude posting

"I come in peace" Hahaha...

I detect from you a certain frustration with Islam and Muslims, but at a fairly insignificant level I'm willing to accept as the price of doing business. I don't get the impression you hate me simply because of my faith.

I also get the impression you're constantly on the defensive, for whatever reason, as opposed to maliciously and with bad faith trying to assume an offensive role.

If this impression is true, then we won't have a problem.

All I would say is don't think I'm being offensive, because I'm really not. Now this is a thread I wouldn't have made if not for the 'propaganda' thread but I still hope we can take it and have an honest debate.

I think you should answer the questions I asked in my first post. To have my views clearly stated, and yours hidden and unknown, it isn't a fair fair platform for us to discuss this issue.

Discussions like this tend to be very personal, we both have a lot of interest in this topic - so perhaps its best to just share your opinion and leave it at that, instead of us both trying to refute the others views.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Djamila

Discussions like this tend to be very personal, ...

Of greater concern is that posts like

Q{Is lying, thieving, bigoted Zionism compatible with Judaism?}

are simply disingenuous, irrespective of the amount of quote-mining used to justify such nonsense.

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

Of greater concern is that posts like

Q{Is lying, thieving, bigoted Zionism compatible with Judaism?}

are simply disingenuous, irrespective of the amount of quote-mining used to justify such nonsense.

Well when you see a post like that, I'm sure you'll let us all know. Until then, contribute positively, share you input on the subject actually being discussed, or don't.

[Buttercup]

Djamila,

You can take this for what it's worth...but, I have a suggestion.

How about you take the side of the Muslim Arabs/Palestinians and express what points they need to concede in order to further a peaceful resolution to Middle East issues and those who have knowledge of the Israeli side of the conflicts can discuss what Israel needs to do.

In other words....instead of pointing fingers at the other side, both sides point the finger at themselves.

May not work but seems to me there would be less angry confrontation.

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

Djamila,

You can take this for what it's worth...but, I have a suggestion.

How about you take the side of the Muslim Arabs/Palestinians and express what points they need to concede in order to further a peaceful resolution to Middle East issues and those who have knowledge of the Israeli side of the conflicts can discuss what Israel needs to do.

In other words....instead of pointing fingers at the other side, both sides point the finger at themselves.

May not work but seems to me there would be less angry confrontation.

I won't hold my breath for someone to honestly do this for the other side, but I'll take up your challenge.

Okay, the most important thing the Palestinians need to do is accept that terrorist attacks are not an acceptable means of reaching any objective, regardless of how just or noble it might be. This is important not only because it is fundamental to Islamic teachings and ensuring no innocent people are killed, but it is also important for the Palestinians. The occupation is taking many things - their freedom, their quality of life, their homeland, even their lives in many examples. But it cannot take their souls, only they can give up their souls - and terrorist attacks accomplish just that.

The second most important thing the Palestinians need to do is to lobby their moral allies around the world to become more proactive on their behalf and to ensure American media begins to share the Palestinian side of the conflict. Even sharing the numbers of Palestinians that have been killed, even refusing to refer to periods when only Palestinians are being killed as "periods of relative calm", even refering to illegal Israeli colonies as settlements and not "neighborhoods"... the American people, if they knew what was happening to the Palestinians, I know in my heart would, would pressure their government into working towards peace, not towards Israel's right-wing's desired success. America is the single most important player in this conflict and it needs to stay working for peace. The Palestinians simply must fight for this, not simply dismiss the American government. Find a way to make an independent Palestine in the interest of American leaders, thats all it takes.

That's how Bosnia secured lasting help. The Americans started the process of pulling out of Bosnia in 1996, a year after the war. Our government said: Oh, well okay. We'll get Saudi Arabia to rebuild us then. Invite in lots of Middle Eastern governments and charities." The Americans agreed to stay overnight, and are still here.

The Palestinians have to pressure the Arab governments for more support. Morally and legally, they have every right to return to their homes even within Israel's 1948 borders. Thus returning to their homes in the occupied territories is their right without question. They must work to empower their people and create allies and and a military force that doesn't attack civilians, but defends villages from the attacks of Jewish settlers, and so on. They cannot simply live defenseless in occupied land and expect the international community to save their lives, it won't happen. And for as long as they are only able to inflict pain in Israel, but not truly defend their interests, then they will always suffer the worst end of this war.

That's about all I can think of now.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Djamila

Well when you see a post like that, I'm sure you'll let us all know.

I have.

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

I have.

Well of course you did now, you made it yourself.

Again, if you're not willing to contribute to this thread positively, or at least on-topic, then don't post in it at all.

[greatcalgarian]

Originally Posted by ‡Âlãn‡

(directed at GC )

You want to drag me into this thread?