The Criminalization Of Poverty? (experience)

Sunstone · #1 08-30-2006, 01:54 AM

What do you think of laws that make it a criminal offense to do things typically done by poor or homeless people, such as sleep in public places or panhandle? Do you think these laws, which in effect criminalize poverty, are good?

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BrandonE · #2 08-30-2006, 09:23 AM

No. I think the safety net needs to be bigger. Of course, it will never catch everyone, but I don't see the benefit to criminalzing sleeping outside or panhandling.

My wife and I visited San Francisco several years ago, and I'd never been panhandled nearly that often in my life. It was disturbing to see so many people in need, and yet, not be able to help all of them. So, from that experience, I can understand some of the thinking that must go behind the laws, but I have to think that there is a better solution available than making it criminal to panhandle. Is jail really more efficient a place to provide shelter for these folks than shelters set up for the purpose?

Poverty is the societal problem that causes me the most emotional distress, but one that I have the fewest good ideas on how to address. The worst effect of poverty I think is the learned helplessness that the sufferers feel, and one of the most difficult to address. This is, I think, the biggest single blindspot of the free market ideal. The psychological cost of poverty is grossly underestimated by many, if not most, free market proponents.

ayani · #3 08-30-2006, 09:29 AM

i don't find them good, no.

i've been homeless- one of the most frightening things about it is the fear of someone ::seeing:: you and calling the police. your existence is illegal, trying to find an improvised shelter is illegal, staying in that shelter once you've found it is illegal.

falling on difficult times should not be criminal. it can be very, very hard to find the money you need to get off the street, even if it's just fifty odd dollars. making it illegal to exist in an unhoused state doesn't make things easier for the homeless, or safer.

egroen · #4 08-30-2006, 09:43 AM

Being poor does seem to be a criminal offense. I have a friend who recently went through a rough stretch (and too proud to ask for help, of course). She could not afford to renew the tags on her car, but there was no way for her to maintain her job without a car (public transportation sucks in Detroit)... so she drove with expired plates and she was pulled over a couple times which lead to her license being suspended. She could not pay the tickets of course, so a warrant was issued for her arrest. Next time she was pulled over for expired plates she was arrested and hauled off to jail.

Luckily she has friends in the area she finally asked for help, but if she did not -- gosh, that is a slippery slope and quick transition from 'poor' to 'criminal'.

-Erin

PetShopBoy88 · #5 08-30-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunstone

What do you think of laws that make it a criminal offense to do things typically done by poor or homeless people, such as sleep in public places or panhandle? Do you think these laws, which in effect criminalize poverty, are good?

http://miketodd.typepad.com/waving_o...ove_along.html

As far as I know, sleeping in public places isn't a crime now. I certainly wouldn't want it to be, either. It is a public place. It's for the public (including the homeless) to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt another. Sleeping and panhandling don't hurt people.

Jaymes · #6 08-30-2006, 10:35 AM

It's foolish at best and tackles the symptoms rather than the problem. Making it illegal to sleep in public places or panhandle won't stop homeless people from existing.

Sunstone · #7 08-30-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egroen

Being poor does seem to be a criminal offense. I have a friend who recently went through a rough stretch (and too proud to ask for help, of course). She could not afford to renew the tags on her car, but there was no way for her to maintain her job without a car (public transportation sucks in Detroit)... so she drove with expired plates and she was pulled over a couple times which lead to her license being suspended. She could not pay the tickets of course, so a warrant was issued for her arrest. Next time she was pulled over for expired plates she was arrested and hauled off to jail.

Luckily she has friends in the area she finally asked for help, but if she did not -- gosh, that is a slippery slope and quick transition from 'poor' to 'criminal'.

-Erin

I've had several friends who could not afford insurance for their cars, nor afford to give up their cars (which would mean giving up their jobs).

Sunstone · #8 08-30-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gracie

it can be very, very hard to find the money you need to get off the street...

This is quite true. It can be very difficult to get off the streets once you find yourself there. Just getting and holding a job when you don't have any place to bathe except a public restroom sink is extremely difficult. Showing up for work hungry and working hard is extremely difficult. Transportation to and from work can be difficult to obtain. And saving enough money for a deposit on an apartment can be nearly impossible if you have to eat in restaurants because you don't have a kitchen.

Without help of some sort, getting off the streets is extrarodinarily difficult.