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#1
08-13-2006, 08:23 AM
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Creation of Israel and the non-creation of Palestine
I often hear of this land being "stolen by the jews". Who does this land belong to? Who was it taken from? When was the Palestine Mandate ever a nation, let alone a political entity? What were the borders of this state? What was the currency called? Who were the leaders and what kind of political system did they lead?
The fact is "Palestine" was never given its own nation by the arabic ottoman empire (1517-1917). It was only until the ottomans were defeated in WWI that the french and british put in motion a seperate nation of Jordan, apart from Turkey. This region was controlled by the egyptians, then the jews, then the assyrians and babylonians, then the greeks, then the romans, then the persians, then the greeks again and then the arabs... all through conquest. The turks were defeated and gave this land to the french and british in accordance with their peace treaty. Such happens in war. Despite the arabs never giving them their own nation, in 2000 the Israelis offered the Palestinians 95% of their negotiating demands, their own sovereign state in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, 97% of the West Bank, and a capital in Jerusalem. This was not enough. Israel offered this despite numerous wars attempted at completely obliterating them as a nation (brought upon the Israelis in every single case)... and offered it to a people who supported Hitler in WWII (the Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini -- Arafat’s hero -- who spent the Holocaust years in Berlin, didn’t have his romantic dream come true: that his pal Adolf Hitler would win the Second World War and bring the Final Solution to the Middle East. He is still revered among many Palestinians today.) The Palestinians are worse off in occupied Lebanon, where they are denied basic rights to employment, healthcare and government services – unlike the many Palestinians in Israel and in the "occupied" territories. Consider also how how Kuwait ethnically cleansed all its Palestinians (about 300,000 of them) just a decade ago, and how Jordanians slaughtered thousands of them after the 1967 war? From 1949-67 when all of Judea-Samaria (West Bank and Jerusalem) and Gaza were 100% under Arab (Jordanian and Egyptian) control, no effort was ever made to create a second Palestinian State for the Arabs living there. And isn't it curious how Arafat and his PLO (formed in 1964) discovered their "ancient" identity and a need for "self-determination" and "human dignity" on this very same West Bank only after Israel regained this territory (three years later in 1967) following Jordan's attempt to destroy Israel. Why was no request ever made upon King Hussein of Jordan by the Arabs living on the West Bank when he occupied it? From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war that was unambiguously aimed at destroying Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place. Are Palestinians only human when they are oppressed by Jews? Israel has given birth to an Arab citizenry inside Israel of more than one million people. As Israeli citizens, Arabs have more rights, privileges and opportunities than the citizens of any Arab state in the Middle East. Unlike their Arab counter-parts, Arab citizens in Israel vote in free elections and are themselves elected to the Israeli parliament. In other words, one of the few places where Arabs know democracy and a high standard of living is in a Jewish nation. -Erin Last edited by egroen; 08-13-2006 at 08:27 AM. 
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#2
08-13-2006, 09:14 AM
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Not quite sure what to say, except for "I agree with every word you have said".
Sadly that will not be the view of some members on this forum. Fruballs to you.
__________________
My life is an open book; if you don't like the read, put me back on the shelf ....................
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#3
08-13-2006, 09:45 AM
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__________________
if G-d ( G-d is not 'X' for all 'X' )
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#4
08-13-2006, 09:53 AM
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Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British looked favorably upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the jews.
This region in the 19th century, before the jews starting immigrating, was literally a sea of rampant diseases such as dysentery, malaria, typhus and trachoma, and was a backward and neglected part of the Ottoman Empire. In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. In effect, the British had "chopped off" 75% of the originally proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Peninsula nation called Trans-Jordan (meaning "across the Jordan River"). Trans-Jordan and would again be renamed "Jordan" in 1946. The bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now. -Erin
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#5
08-13-2006, 10:22 AM
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The Mernepta Stele -- An egyptian document: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele The Tel Dan Inscription -- First time evidence of the House of David was found by archeoligists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan Persian Source -- Kurash (Cyrus) the Great: The Decree of Return for the Jews, 539 BCE http://www.iranchamber.com/history/c...ecree_jews.php Petition to Authorize Elephantine Temple Reconstruction: http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/westsem/templeauth.html Samples of Inscriptions Documenting Jews and Judaism in the Greco-Roman Diaspora: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/courses/rs135/samples.html Others: http://www.excel.net/~hoy/t-inscr/tinscr.html I hope you do not think this is the crux of my point, however. Claim the jews were never in Israel, I don't mind. It does not change the point of "Whose was it?" and "Who was it 'stolen' from?" are very valid questions to ask, and something most 'palestine' sympathizers are ignorant of. I, as a non-arab persian, have just as valid of a claim on it as anyone else  -Erin Last edited by egroen; 08-13-2006 at 11:35 AM.
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#6
08-13-2006, 01:34 PM
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i am not sure what to say either but well done! and get ready to duck
__________________
"what we need here is a little less god and a little more humanity"
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#7
08-13-2006, 05:12 PM
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#8
08-13-2006, 05:14 PM
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#9
08-13-2006, 05:51 PM
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