Why do YOU have the right to vote on MY rights? (reject, paradise)

[PureX]

Originally Posted by LongGe123

If we're talking about things that could affect the fabric of society, then we must turn to society to try to resolve the issue.

The United States is not a democracy. It's a democratic republic. What this means is that the majority do not rule in America, but that there is a balance of power established between the will of the majority and the rights of individuals and minorities. This balance of power was established and is maintained by the founding documents of the nation, not by the will of the majority, or by any governing body or person's decree, and so cannot be altered by any vote.

We are a limited democracy in that the will of the majority is limited by the rights of the individual and the rights of minorities as established and protected by the founding documents of the nation. Those documents are unfortunately somewhat vague, and sketchy, and could not for-see many of the conditions that would manifest over the years, but nevertheless, we do try very hard to stick to the spirit of those documents if not to the letter, as best we are able.

Any issue regarding the essential freedom, rights, and protections of any citizen in this country cannot be settled by a vote, because that would be giving the will of the majority power over the rights of an individual or minority, which would defy the most fundamental principals of this nation.

According to the spirit of the founding documents of the United States, homosexuals already have the right to marry. Unfortunately, the American people have been so thoroughly prejudiced against homosexuals until this point in history, that it didn't even really occur to us that we'd been denying these citizens rights that have been guaranteed to them by the most fundamental principals of the nation, and that our prejudice has been written into thousands of "illegal" laws as a result. So what needs to happen, now, is that the American people need to finally recognize their own prejudice, and begin undoing the unfair effects of our prejudice by correcting the "illegal" laws that have been written as a result of it. I believe this is just beginning to happen, and that it will happen fully in time.

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Jensa

When gay marriage comes up to the ballot, what gives anyone the right to vote against something that will affect my rights?This goes doubly so if someone is straight, since it won't affect them at all.

This isn't a democratic society. We aren't allowed to vote on if Christians or atheists or Wiccans or Taoists or Buddhists or Muslims or black people or white people or green people get rights. Why do we vote on whether gays get rights?

Legally, gay marriage is not a right yet so, technically, you're "right" isn't being affected because it doesn't exist.

We must operate within the bonds of our laws. There is a right way to change things...through voting.

I don't support gay marriage, but I believe it will inevitably become a reality.

[Jaymes]

Funny, I thought it was a human right to marry another consenting adult. Straight people sure have it. It was around during Loving vs. Virginia. Why's it mysteriously absent when gays want it?

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Jensa

Funny, I thought it was a human right to marry another consenting adult. Straight people sure have it. It was around during Loving vs. Virginia. Why's it mysteriously absent when gays want it?

I don't know...perhaps it's that same mysterious reason why the government prevented my ancestors from practicing polygamy even though that too was between consenting adults.

For good or bad there has always been a morality attached to our laws. Currently, gay marriage is seen immoral by many, but that seems to be changing every day.

[Jaymes]

I no more think polygamy should be stopped than I think gay marriage should be stopped. I don't think people should vote on it, either. This isn't a society where we vote on every aspect of complete strangers' lives, despite what American Idol would have us think.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by nutshell

Legally, gay marriage is not a right yet so, technically, you're "right" isn't being affected because it doesn't exist.

We must operate within the bonds of our laws. There is a right way to change things...through voting.

I don't support gay marriage, but I believe it will inevitably become a reality.

It IS a right and the vote being taken is to deny the exercise of that right. It is the first time, aside from prohibition, that a right is being taken away.

Tell me, nutshell, was your right to worship as you do - has that been voted on? No? Then we should tear down where you worship. THAT is the logical extension of the thoughts expressed in your post.

But rights are not the subject of the vote. What is being denied is freedom to exercise that right. Do you get the distinction? Rights are something you acquire at birth - freedoms let you enjoy those rights. You always have rights but some, in some countries, do not have the freedoms.

Homosexual marriage rights are being surpressed by denying the freedom to marry whom you chose, who consents to the marriage and who is not a close relative.

Now when you deny freedoms to another you suffer the risk of losing freedoms yourself. You must be acutely aware of the feelings of some Christians that they do not consider you a "full christian". Suppose they forced a vote (and there are organizations dedicated to acquiring that power) and you lost the freedom to be called a Christian? Can't happen? Guess again. The very same Christians that spearhead the homosexual denial are the very same ones that would "sink" your being called a Christian. Where will it happen? - in South Carolina, if they succede in gaining the power they seek.

So you go right ahead and not support the rights and not support the drive for homosexual marriage. I will continue supporting both the homosexual rights and the rights for you to worship as you do and in spite of your non-support.

[WeAreAllOne]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Pah again.

Good post!

[Fluffy]

When gay marriage comes up to the ballot, what gives anyone the right to vote against something that will affect my rights?This goes doubly so if someone is straight, since it won't affect them at all.

This isn't a democratic society. We aren't allowed to vote on if Christians or atheists or Wiccans or Taoists or Buddhists or Muslims or black people or white people or green people get rights. Why do we vote on whether gays get rights?

1) Those who vote against gay marriage normally also believe that allowing gay marriage will affect them in some way. What would be a sufficiently arbitrary way of determining whether it would or not? Another vote ?

2) You argue that a straight person should have no right to vote on issues that soley affect gay people because "they usually have no idea what it's like to be gay." Does that mean that people must now prove that they have some idea about the issue that they are voting on before they are allowed to vote on it or does this only apply to gay issues? How could we go about doing that practically? Why should gay rights gain this special benefit when there is no precedent?

Please remember that I am bi and I fully support gay rights. However, I am very edgy about restricting the vote in order to get them.

Edit: How would we go about legalising gay marriage if not through a vote? Surely if we prevented any vote on them and then say the supreme court pushed the law through, then if the judges were then replaced by more conservative ones at a later date, we would be unable to prevent them from simply changing the law back again?