The Death Penalty (morals, punishment, virgin, beliefs, America)

[Ryan2065]

Originally Posted by Darkdale

You are placing an awful lot of faith in your government if you think that it is immune to the oppression of other countries with similar powers. One might look at such a faith as being rather naive.

So, by your reasoning... we should take away all powers the government has that have been abused by other nations sometime in the past? That seems pretty drastic...

Originally Posted by Darkdale

We ought not make laws to govern the exceptions to the rule. Instead, we must deal with the exceptions as they arise. Giving the government powers to kill it's criminals is not a good solution. If you want to use your standards, Can you be 100% certain that no innocent person will ever be killed? Personally, I think such a question is pointless, but it is in line with your "logic".

We cannot be 100% certain that someone is guilty in any crime... Your point? If someone is to die in jail is that not even more cruel? They have to sit there for years and years knowing they are going to die and knowing that it will never get any better for them than what it is right then and there. You seem to be advocating that the government should have pretty much no powers that they can possibly ever abuse...

Originally Posted by Darkdale

We can deal with how we keep our prisoners in another thread. Certainly we could keep these most violent criminals in their own cells.

Just keeping a violent criminal in his own cell as punishment for the rest of his life is pretty cruel... We don't even do that to our animals (well the ones that can survive outside of their cages) Or are you saying that the violent criminals should be treated worse than animals?

[Darkdale]

I think the foundation of the opposition to the death penalty can be summed up as such:

It doesn't do anyone any good for ones' government to kill its' citizens. For those who think the death penalty is good, who do you think it benefits? (don't say soceity unless you have some kind of evidence to back it up, because my next question will be, who, in soceity, benefits?)

[jeffrey]

People that are doing life have nothing to lose by killing again. That is why most are kept in solitary. What are you going to do? give them life on top of life? And I might be wrong, but I can't recall anyone getting the death penalty for killing another innate.

[Ryan2065]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Nay. There's much better ways of punishing people. When you're dead, you're dead, and it hasn't done anything for anybody. Put criminals to work, make them pay off their debt to society, make give something back.

Even the ones that are a huge threat to society? What work can they do that will ensure they will be no threat to another in the workplace?

[Darkdale]

Originally Posted by Ryan2065

So, by your reasoning... we should take away all powers the government has that have been abused by other nations sometime in the past? That seems pretty drastic...

It would be drastic if you lacked reason. Like most folk, you are failing to address the issue as it exists. You take everything to the extreme. It's absurd.

Originally Posted by Ryan2065

We cannot be 100% certain that someone is guilty in any crime... Your point? If someone is to die in jail is that not even more cruel? They have to sit there for years and years knowing they are going to die and knowing that it will never get any better for them than what it is right then and there. You seem to be advocating that the government should have pretty much no powers that they can possibly ever abuse...

That wasn't my argument. It was simply within your your line of thinking. I said it was a pointless question. I'm just trying to get into the frame of mind that takes everything to the absurd extreme.

Originally Posted by Ryan2065

Just keeping a violent criminal in his own cell as punishment for the rest of his life is pretty cruel... We don't even do that to our animals (well the ones that can survive outside of their cages) Or are you saying that the violent criminals should be treated worse than animals?

Yes. I am.

[Fluffy]

The justice system should fulfil to roles:
1) Protecting others
2) Rehabilitating people into society

Prison does this, the death penalty does not.

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Ryan2065

Even the ones that are a huge threat to society? What work can they do that will ensure they will be no threat to another in the workplace?

That's what jails are for. That's what guards with machine guns are for. I'm not saying make them work as a teller in a bank, or something. I'm saying chain gangs who build railroads and do other grunt labour under the watch of guards with machine guns and tasers.

[Ryan2065]

Originally Posted by Darkdale

It would be drastic if you lacked reason. Like most folk, you are failing to address the issue as it exists. You take everything to the extreme. It's absurd.

Then please provide a list of other countries that have taken the death peanlty to the extreme that you say the United States can do and then show how the political and social issues in those countries parallel the ones happening in this country to show that it could happen in this one...

Originally Posted by Darkdale

Yes. I am.

Good to know that you believe criminals should be treated worse than animals... So, its ok to kill animals when they are not wanted... Why can we not kill criminals?

[Ryan2065]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

The justice system should fulfil to roles:
1) Protecting others
2) Rehabilitating people into society

Prison does this, the death penalty does not.

How does prision do this for people who are in jail for the rest of their lives? (ie, life sentence without the chance of paroll)

Originally Posted by Aqualung

I'm saying chain gangs who build railroads and do other grunt labour under the watch of guards with machine guns and tasers.

So you are saying that you would like to take people who should be killed under the death peanlty laws (ie EXTREMELY violent people) and put them in chain gangs?? Becasue this would not increase the chances of escape at all... =P