Should Religion come into Politics ? (beliefs, minority, America, church)

[michel]

Having seen the thread "George H. W. Bush's Comments Towards Atheists" reminds me again of a conversation that Fluffy and I had not so long ago.

We have both been very surprized by the "Religion in Politics" culture with which America seem to have been saddled.

Certainly, in England, there is little religious content in politics; as far as I am aware, the same goes for most of our European continental friends.

I am interested to know when and how religion became what seems like a necessary adjunct to politics in The States. Perhaps someone could give me an internet site reference ?

Do any of you forsee the day when Politics and Religion will have their separate places in America ?

What would you need to bring about such a change ?

[Original Freak]

It has no place...none...not even if it's proven 100% accurate and unquestionably true. If the Christian god of the bible proved himself to me, and told me the bible was a perfect account of his actions, I still wouldn't worship him and don't think a countries laws should be based around such a creature.

[Faminedynasty]

I agree that it has no place in politics. The politics of religions are the politics of divisionism, of hatred, and it creates exactly the "us and them" mentality utilized by Bush and countless others throughout history to excuse unjustifyable wars, mass killings, etc. I'm not saying that the religious have no place in government, only that they should understand that in the administrative process of governing it is harmful to part with logic, reason and law, which religion seems to have the effect of doing in the United States. As the evangelists said after the 2004 elections "Those liberals didn't realize that this is a Biblical nation." Perhaps they don't realize that we are a constitutionally secular nation, and for good reason. Theocracy is a bad thing, especially based on a religion that has a history of endless war and killing in the name of God. Those who want a theocracy should look at Iran, or Afghanistan under the Taliban. Laws are extreme and illogical, and the political and religious majorities have little if any protection. Obviously, the white American Christians who support theocratic policies would argue that the problems with Islamic theocracy lie within Islam, and not within theocracy, but equally obviously, that belief is based only on their own bigotry. Christian theocracy would certainly lead to the destruction of countless individual rights and liberties that millions struggled for, and I imagine it would also lead to unbelievably destructive religious war, especially considering some of the types who call themselves "Christian" in the United States.
The obligation that government has to religion is to protect the rights of their practitioners and to promote tollerance between them, not to promote their own at the expense of the taxpayers of a constitutionally secular nation.

[Fluffy]

Well to do anything in a society based on the wishes of a minority is undemocratic. If the majority in America continue to be religious then religion will continue to play a part in politics. Either that or America will cease to be a democracy.

From a personal point of view, I would not want to see a Christian theocracy emerge simply because I disagree with too much of Christianity to wish it to become law.

Having said that it is totally illogical to expect believers in Christianity or any other religion to not vote according to their beliefs. And if a democracy is based on peoples wishes then the 2 are inseperable. You can't seperate Church from State unless the state is secular in the first place.

[Ormiston]

I sure hope things will eventually change. What do you all think is responsible for the changes in Europe over the centuries?

[niceguy]

Originally Posted by Ormiston

I sure hope things will eventually change. What do you all think is responsible for the changes in Europe over the centuries?

The lack of separation of state and church in our history. You could actually be punished for not showing up in church often enough, or worse, showing up in the wrong type of church. Religioues minorities has been harshly percecuted here in our history, driving many of them to emigrate over to the US. So when the laws became more lenient and media become more avalible to the general public so we didn't need to go to church to hear the news, we abandoned it. The church are no longer used as a tool for the state to help control the population and so the state no longer need the church so our seperation of the the church from the state came gradually. Now, even mentioning ones religoues belives may make a politican loose votes since we expect them to be secual. We do have a somewhat religoues party in our parliment but thats all, they are to small to have any real power and they are far from the extremists we see in the religoues right in the US today.

[Lintu]

People will always vote based on their beliefs but it is becoming blatant that the separation of church and state is not intact. For instance, I don't know if anyone posted this (it is entirely possible) but the governor of Texas recently signed a bill in a church (on purpose) and has dedicated his support to registering 300,000 "values voters" (aka Christian Conservatives). It's disgusting.

[almifkhar]

the sad reality is that politics and religion have gone hand in hand for it seems forever. as far as say the united states turning itself into a theocratc state (i am a bad speller i am sorry) i say no to this. i say no because this just so happens to be a melting pot. there are so many religions that are practiced in this land it would not be fair to everyone to be forced to believe in something they did not believe in. for our presidant to speak of his so called religious beliefs in public is flat out wrong. his only job is to defend our consitution nothing more and nothing less.

[Crystallas]

You cant avoid religion and politics. Now as far as a ballance, that their must be. As much as anyone would never want to see church and state mix... Im just convinced that it would slander those who choose to follow their faith and take away from many aspects of it. Now what Bush said and how I feel are 2 diffrent things. Bush says dumb crap and he seems to say dumb crap often.
Its just the matter of respecting people who choose to live life how they feel best suited. Thats why people will fight what politics factors in as a religious influence. Its just a natural way of keeping ballance. But like I just said "Bush says dumb crap." Were going to have people like this. Sometimes it works for the better, sometimes the worse. The way our system works is if we dont like it, 4 years change it. If anything, we will learn from his mistakes and use that to improve, and I hope we learn from the things that he has done right too(seems that we fail to do this when bad things happen, then we just want to be so diffrent that we lose things that did work well.)

[michel]

Originally Posted by Lintu

People will always vote based on their beliefs but it is becoming blatant that the separation of church and state is not intact. For instance, I don't know if anyone posted this (it is entirely possible) but the governor of Texas recently signed a bill in a church (on purpose) and has dedicated his support to registering 300,000 "values voters" (aka Christian Conservatives). It's disgusting.

Unfortunately, at the end of the day politics is a 'Job' - when you are working, it is logical to maximise any way of ensuring your security in the job.

As I see it (I may be quite wrong), in America, if you want a greater following, then it is a case of 'Getting in bed with the Christians' - if it is a well intentioned morality, then that is fine - in moral terms - the trouble is presumably that one can't be certain that the 'Christian bandwaggon' is being jumped on for the right reasons.

Please don' t misunderstand me; I am not in the slightest bit against Christianity - it is just that I personally think that politics and religion ought, ideally, to be separated.