Energy (ritual, virtual, choice, hell, America)

[JOEBIALEK]

As a result of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 and the growing uncertainty with the situation in the Middle East, South America and Europe, the United States is now forced to re-think its energy policy so that it can lower energy consumption of and dependence on foreign oil. Just as the automobile replaced the horse-drawn carriage so it is time for the electric battery to replace the gasoline engine. We are at the dawn of a new age when one can plug their car into an electric outlet and re-charge it for travel up to sixty miles or more. But with any wholesale change comes the requirement of a transitional mechanism. Hence the need for a vehicle that can run alternatively on both gasoline and electricity. The goal of course would be to make a total conversion within a reasonable amount of time. Most of the electricity produced in the United States comes from coal-fired power plants so the concern by some is that a reduction in tailpipe emissions would be offset by an increase in air pollution from the power plants. Others argue that the sheer volume of reduced vehicle emissions would fall far greater than plant-produced air pollution. We may even see a coalition of military hawks and environmentalists as fuel efficiency brings about both security and a better climate.

Few would argue that two factors influence consumer's choice of transportation more than anything else: gas mileage and appearance. Ever since the automobile became available to the average consumer, it has always been considered a status symbol much like the clothing we wear and the houses we live in. The price of electricity is pale compared to the price of gasoline so this factor is virtually a no-brainer. The choice of appearance however, will always linger as long as we believe that "appearance makes the person". But this factor can also be addressed during the transition phase since it appears that most vehicles today can be modified to use both fuel sources. As for the future, the old tried and true marketing techniques will convince most people that buying the style of car available will guarantee that the "future won't pass them by". Just as Japanese cars promoting fuel efficiency in response to the oil embargo of the 1970's sparked the Big Three to respond accordingly so will the shift to electric vehicles change the market once again. Perhaps this time General Motors, Ford and Daimler Chrysler will get the "jump on the competition" and in so doing, save themselves from bankruptcy.

[BUDDY]

Hello and welcome to the forum Joe. Please go to the Are you new to Religios Forums area and tell us more about yourself. You can also find some helpful information concerning the rules of the forum and where to post specific subjects.

I too believe that the time is at hand for people to start using more fuel efficient cars. It is sad, but it has taken ridiculous gas prices to finally convinve people that efficiency is better than status. Hopefully folkd will start to be led more by common sense than by community status.

[Fluffy]

Firstly, I must commend you on such a well written post and for that alone I will give you some frubals . But before I even get there I should say welcome to the forums! Go to the new member introductions, tell us about yourself and recieve a warm welcome into the RF community .

Now then, to get back on topic. Of all of the electric vehicles I have encountered, their top speed has been very disappointing indeed. If electricity is to really surpass gasoline as a viable energy option then this is something that really needs to be addressed. Do you know if higher speeds might be possible in what you refer to as transitional vehicles since gasoline could be used to obtain a high speed whilst electricity might be used to maintain it. Whilst this would not entirely remove the problem, it would certainly make electricity more widely used, saving in gasoline and on pollution.

I am curious as to why you think that electricity is the right alternative to choose as opposed to a different fuel source such as hydrogen which certainly has the advantage of being kinder on the enviroment whilst firmly removing the automobile industry's dependancy on fossil fuels of any kind.

[Christopher Krajewski]

: most people really want fuel efficient cars with the will on just getting form point A to point B. It's a kind of spiritual energy that drives our concepts of both nationalism and private religious concern. However, there is something rether sisnister in the what we want and what we comport to the appreciation of good wealth. I won't get into the facecious ramifications of the "gas pedal" which is beyond the utility of mere want and has the value of the destructive trend to overcome the fear of scarcity. Truly the idea of endless gas and oil development by the impossible task to STOP oil exploration, the theory of supply and demand meaning that higher prices allow us to drill deeper and deeper. Oil is the wealth commodity which situates Man to the control on Inflation. Not what we want but HOW we reason the freedom of growth without utilizing more energy per capita.

So how would put a moretorium on more oil exploration any where in the World, and just use up the sources we contain in already drilled wells. Like god's energy which in the ideal sense exists in the higher value of Oil companies to help the local social responsibility from the company's ... work-a-worth. But does freedom for its constitutional liberty actaually make us the choice to do what we want?

Doing what we want wasn't always HAPPY. Giving equality, paying for forms of struggling tasks to give us the KNOW HOW etc.:canadian:

[Fat Old Sun]

Speed is not really a concern for me. Range is far more important for many people. Sixty miles just won't cut it. When I was a salesman with a five state territory, I would often drive 400 miles a day, and on rare occasions, over 1000.

Air conditioning is also a concern, at least in Florida it is. Rolling down the windows doesn't work during the summer down here. You just get blasted with hot air. The range of an electric car is further reduced when you run anything else that requires power.

Hybrid cars are a start, and may buy us some time. It is not just the US, and it is not just cars though. China is having a huge impact on demand. Don't forget, without petroleum, we lose plastics also.

[michel]

Hi Joe, Namaste;


Welcome to the forum; I see you've already 'entrenched ' yourself into debating. I hope you enjoy being here; you might like to check Articles for New Members
From where you will also find a link to Forum rules.
Enjoy.

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by Fat Old Sun

Don't forget, without petroleum, we lose plastics also.

Without crude oil you mean?

I'm curious, the electricity used in electric cars comes from connecting to the national power grid. The energy then is from burning fossil fuels and by nuclear fission. A very small amount of power in most countries is generated by renewables. Electric cars are of little use in reducing pollution until this changes, no?

[Fluffy]

Speed is not really a concern for me.

I think you will find that speed will quickly become a concern for you when a speed limit of 30 mph is artificially enforced through widespread usage of electric vehicles caused MASSIVE congestion. It will also impact on the range since all your energy will be used up waiting in traffic jams rather than cruising on an open freeway.

[JOEBIALEK]

can't wait for my electric Camry...

[Quoth The Raven]

Originally Posted by Fat Old Sun

Don't forget, without petroleum, we lose plastics also.

Henry Ford built an entire car out of plant (soy meal) based plastic in the 1920's. The plastic body of the car withstood impacts 10 times as great as a steel bodied car could without denting. Prior to this he was using bioplastics for glove box doors, gear shift knobs,horn buttons, accelerator pedals,distributor heads, interior trim, steering wheels and dashboard panels. The 1915 Model T Ford had coil cases made from a wheat gluten resin reinforced with asbestos fibre. Apparently his dream was a car made from and fuelled by plant material.
In Japan, bioplastic is projected to account for 10% of their plastic production within 10 years.
Cargill Inc. invented a product known as PLA, which is a polymer derived from plant sugars (primarily from corn) and used widely in packaging. They also make a fibrefill for pillows, comforters, etc. from the same stuff.
Ever heard of Bakelite?
Plenty of ways to make plastic without crude oil.