Do we NEED guns? (evolution, America, pagan, Zen)

[Green Gaia]

Do we really need guns in our society?

[jewscout]

do i see them as being something dangerous and harmful in our society...yes
do i see them as a tool that can be beneficial and helpful if used properly...yes

so i'm sorta on the fence with this one...leaning toward 2nd amendment rights...

[Dr. Nosophoros]

If your government, general society (propagandized by media) deems weapons in the hands of peasants outlawed, don't you wonder a bit? Hey, it worked in Okinawa. I would reccomend to anyone concerned the U.S. Military manual TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook, lots of good stuff in it, forget the "anarchists cookbook" etc. they just teach you enough to hurt yourself along with a lot of other B.S.- but yes, if there is a will there is a way.

[Seyorni]

Even as a radical pacifist, vegan, non gun owning social and animal-rights activist I voted "yes." The founding fathers of the US made a good point. There is a natural tendency of government to grow, arrogate power, and develop into tyranny. An armed citizenry, as the Federalist papers point out, is a check against this tendancy.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Maize

Do we really need guns in our society?

Yes...I firmly believe that at some point in time we'll need to defend ourselves against our own government. I don't believe we're there yet, but we're moving in the right direction.

If we outlaw guns in this country, that will only ensure that the criminal element is now armed and now knows that the regular citizenry are no longer a threat.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Melody

Yes...I firmly believe that at some point in time we'll need to defend ourselves against our own government. I don't believe we're there yet, but we're moving in the right direction.

If we outlaw guns in this country, that will only ensure that the criminal element is now armed and now knows that the regular citizenry are no longer a threat.

If the American military force wanted to come down on the American populace and form a police state of sorts most firearms civilians can purchase will not be a match against the war chest of the US miliatry. That being said i believe at some point it may come to ahead and civilians will have to defend themselves against an armed military force of some nature and i'd rather have some kind of firearm than none at all...

[robtex]

nice to meet so many closet armed (and unarmed) revolutionsist. That we need to fight our govement mentality is kinda extreme. Don't like it here than leave. You can't defect from the USA. You are free to go as you please. No armed revoluion neccessary.

Using the political system via voting and campaigning sounds like a much saner means to achieve goals than harboning delusions of armed conflict with US forces.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by robtex

nice to meet so many closet armed (and unarmed) revolutionsist. That we need to fight our govement mentality is kinda extreme. Don't like it here than leave. You can't defect from the USA. You are free to go as you please. No armed revoluion neccessary.

Using the political system via voting and campaigning sounds like a much saner means to achieve goals than harboning delusions of armed conflict with US forces.

I'm not saying it's going to happen or that there's any sort of probability that it ever will happen...
But then what was the probability that the Nuremburg Codes passed against the Jews would lead to death camps where Jews along with millions of other "undesirables" were slaughtered needlessly...

don't blindly think that nothing like that will ever happen here...
given the right set of circumstances anything is possible...

[Dr. Nosophoros]

Using the political system via voting and campaigning sounds like a much saner means to achieve goals than harboning delusions of armed conflict with US forces.

I was speaking in last resort, last chance scenario context- of course it is saner to use the system to your benefit but when (if) that system fails, I feel it pays to be prepared. As far as armed conflict with U.S forces, how ready do you think they would be to fire on their own civilian population? They are having trouble in Iraq- this would be 10 times worse IMO. To me no matter if you never employ it, it pays to have the knowledge and the ability and that ability comes through experience and training- in backwoods, in swamps etc. The boy scouts say "be prepared" but not for that- ironically.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by Dr. Nosophoros

I was speaking in last resort, last chance scenario context- of course it is saner to use the system to your benefit but when (if) that system fails, I feel it pays to be prepared. As far as armed conflict with U.S forces, how ready do you think they would be to fire on their own civilian population? They are having trouble in Iraq- this would be 10 times worse IMO. To me no matter if you never employ it, it pays to have the knowledge and the ability and that ability comes through experience and training- in backwoods, in swamps etc. The boy scouts say "be prepared" but not for that- ironically.

prepared for what? You just said armed conflict could not happen between citizens and the goverment here.