Do we NEED guns? (evolution, America, pagan, Zen)

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by robtex

AE, I don't have a blackbelt sorry if I presented the idea that i did. I have to ask why the high security. I live in Austin and I know it is a lot safer. I keep my doors unlocked during the day but locked at night. I don't have any guns and the knife collection I mentioned is in the library down the hall (ie not near me).

If I did live in a place I didn't feel safe in (assuming I moved there not knowing it wasn't safe) I would make plans to move. Long or short term. I don't understand while some people are on defcon 3 or defcon 4 much of the time. Seems so unhealthy as a lifesytle. The anxiety and all. I can't say I go through the day working contingecies for assult and I have confidence that even though you do the likelyhood of us both growing old and dying naturally despite our differences is approximatly equal.

Since we are on religious forums I want to throw your christianty into the mix. Christianity is a theims as opposed to deism which means on some level you likley accept the concept of pre-destinaiation..aka God's will. If this is so and your life is in Gods hands, figuratively speaking, do you really need a gun. I mean when the Christian God says its time to go isn't it just time ...no if's and or buts? and if it isn't in God's for you to join him in Heaven isn't that more powerful than any shotgun ever created or ever will be created?

As a Christian it is my responsibility to be a good steward of myself. I live in an area that has home invasions. I am not anxious. I have a blackbelt because I enjoy martial arts - and I have never had to defend myself (I have had the rank for 5 years). I will simply shoot a home invader because I deem it the only responsible action. I trust in God to protect me, and He has provided a weapon for me to use. That gun can be His instrument by which He protects me.

I see the doctor when I am sick, though I trust God for my healing. I go to the grocery store but thank God for my food. I work but I trust God for my money. I study but I trust God for my understanding and wisdom.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by jewscout

If the American military force wanted to come down on the American populace and form a police state of sorts most firearms civilians can purchase will not be a match against the war chest of the US miliatry. .

Yes, there were many who felt that way during the revolutionary war as well. Farmers taking on the very organized English army. Right. And yet....

I agree with many others that I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but I'm willing to help keep the possibility of self-protection for my descendants.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by robtex

NO* all I was trying to point out is that armed protection against the goverment is not in this point in time a valid reason. One, we are a voting society and that is much more effective in begetting change than violence. And second if that changed the USA has the most poweful armed services in the world and a bunch of citizens with guns is not a solution. Because of that I just dimiss the arguement of "we need guns to protect ourselves from the goverment"

I understand that. I don't believe it is valid for our society at present, but we can't simply eliminate and reinstate that. If it is not present at all points, then it becomes a moot point if ever needed. As you said, though, it would have a hard time standing up to the military (at this point, the people would get waxed).

We also agree that voting is of principle importance, because we are a voting people. Any use of armed force is a failure of the system and the people to act, and it would be a mark of shame.

I really don't think we disagree that much . I would not call for an armed revolution in our current society and would actively try to stop it.

[BUDDY]

What we need more than guns, are responsible people who know how to use them safely.

[john313]

Originally Posted by robtex

nice to meet so many closet armed (and unarmed) revolutionsist. That we need to fight our govement mentality is kinda extreme. Don't like it here than leave. You can't defect from the USA. You are free to go as you please. No armed revoluion neccessary.

Using the political system via voting and campaigning sounds like a much saner means to achieve goals than harboning delusions of armed conflict with US forces.

spoken like a true marine
Would this be the same campaigning and voting system where you have to be a multimillionaire just to run, and then even if you win you still lose as in the case of G.W.Bush winning after losing the vote?

[john313]

Originally Posted by linwood

I dunno Rob.

I don`t own a gun but my house was broken into in the middle of the night 2 years ago.
I managed to subdue the guy physically but if he had had a gun I would either be dead or at the least seriously injured.

I`ve also been pepper sprayed on one occassion and it didn`t subdue me.
It only really ****** me off.

i have heard that pepper spray does not work very well. actually i heard it is basically useless.

[martha]

A sad, sad commentary on the question, IMHO.

I once purchased a gun for target shooting at the local range. It was an exilerating experience to see how good a shot I was. In retrospect, the feeling of power it gave to me was freightening! At one point in my ownership, I almost felt like, " Yeah, 'cmon just try to break into my apartment! This is mine and I dare you to try to take it, I'll' blow your@#!!@# brains out!"
In retrospect, I believe that when we come into posession of an instrument that is more powerful than we are, it will corrupt our thoughts, no matter how intelligent you think you are. It will allow us to inforce our ideas of what is or what should be, in a maliscious way. Guns give a false sense of superiority. Then again, if there were no guns, there would be sticks, rocks, crude knives,and boulders to name a few instruments of destruction. In the long run I guess there is no deterrent to man's inhumanity to man. Remember crucifiction, feeding christians to the lions, remember the holocost to the Jews, remember slavery and the bodies of blacks hanging from trees, etc, etc ad infinitum!

Think again, my beloved brothers and sisters of what you are truly capable of. Are you capable of murder, taking another life, pouring out the life blood of another human being who is alive at that very moment just like you? I used to think of actually pulling the trigger and shooting another being if they tried to transgress my supposed personal space. Could I actually do it? I mean, it wouldn't really be me feeling myself hurting the person. I would be at some distance, and the bullet would do the actual injury, right?,

I am sorry, my dears, but killing is wrong no matter what the circumstances in my belief, and I don't think I could really do it. We can justify killing for so many reasons, but in the end, IMHO, it is not the right thing to do. BTW, I no longer own a gun.

[Dr. Khan]

we need to disarm. Revelation 13:13
And he doeth great wonders so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
we chillin from heaven call this gunpower. That second beast no doubt being the Holy Roman Empire which exerciseth all the power of the first beast (the Roman Empire) which is to make war. If these things be so then gunpower devices and all their ilk are all the means by which to kill. We should be developing in wisdom to stop every violent act in the earth. The human race was made to excell in godliness. We can through the guidance and leadership of the Lord Jesus put down all violence and resistance to righteousness in the earth. The body of Christ can become one in mind and heart as we were in the day of pentecost. They had one mind and were in one accord and the Spirit fell on them. We need today to have one mind and be in one accord: we need to enlist the power that is in the kingdom of God on behalf of others in the world who have not yet met Jesus.
My life is proof that I believe in Jesus not because of anyone else who believes John4:42
I know that this is indeed the Christ the saviour of the World.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by martha

I am sorry, my dears, but killing is wrong no matter what the circumstances in my belief, and I don't think I could really do it. We can justify killing for so many reasons, but in the end, IMHO, it is not the right thing to do. BTW, I no longer own a gun.

The best advice I ever received was from a cop I dated in my 20's. He said if you're not sure you can pull the trigger, then don't own a gun because many times when a homeowner is killed by a burglar, they're killed with their own gun.

I'm just not sure I can pull the trigger even to defend myself....or at least I'm not sure enough that I would have a gun in my house. However, I know absolutely that if my husband or children were being threatened that I could pull the trigger. I'm not sure what that says about me.