Gun Control (Earth, virgin, creation, atheist, God)

[Green Gaia]

What is your opinon of the gun control issue? Should we be more or less strict about who can own a gun?

[Green Gaia]

I'm in favor of stricter laws governing guns.... but then again, I wouldn't be sad if I woke up tomorrow and all the guns on the face of the earth had magically disappeared.

[jewscout]

I'm in support of project exhile here in Virginia which gets illegal guns off the streets. However i am in support of the 2nd amendment though i think people need to teach their children that a gun is not a toy, it is something that should be respected and not messed with.

That being said i don't think hunters need AK's to go deer hunting...

[Dr. Nosophoros]

These always come up when school shootings occur, we will see the talking heads, politicians etc. doing their thing in the media, overall I think the laws now are fine. I am not up on the current "Assault Rifle" bans or denominations as mine fall into the grandfather clause (I have a nice AK with 2- 75 rnd. Chi. Mag and folding metal stock- Sweet!!- among others) but I do feel that the clinically insane, former inmates (of serious crimes) etc. should be banned from owning guns, and are.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by jewscout

I'm in support of project exhile here in Virginia which gets illegal guns off the streets. However i am in support of the 2nd amendment though i think people need to teach their children that a gun is not a toy, it is something that should be respected and not messed with.
That being said i don't think hunters need AK's to go deer hunting...

It will take me some time to articulate why I am in support of sticter gun control in the USA but i wanted to comment on Jewscouts excellent observations.

The seocnd ammendment says that we have the right to bear arms as a civiian militia. The context that the law came about in was the idea the minute men could grab a gun and join the fight for their new land on a dime. These minute men were merchants farmers husbands, traders and others in society who could join the than sparser armed forces and fight for their lands on a quick notiice.

If one is going to argue the second amendment than they would have to convince me that we need a minute man militia today as that was the context that the amendment was written under. Today we have the largest armed force in the world and their is no need for a minute man type of army...espcially in Michigan (hint hint).

The not a toy analogy is slightly wrong. I don't think people "play with guns" because they think it is a toy but because of the emotions it brings them. This is true of all hobbies involving instruments. I am big into photography for the same reason ..because I get pleasure from photographing. The difference with guns is that they are designed for killing. The joy people get from a gun comes in the form of protectiion, security, need for control of self and or others, and needs of malice. I don't think it is a matter of people respecting guns, as they are just mechanical instruments but of people desireing respect that gun ownership affords them as a person.

Hunting is a culture that I have much scutinty for. Not because I am against hunting but because from causual observation I see that the hunters are playing pretend solider many times in a safer enviroment which furthers the theory of the gun-control issues many people have. The theory that guns are a way of security in an effort to control others. If you look at the culture of hunters you will see that many of them

1) wear camo. Animals are color blind. Other hunters are not. I have the sneaking suspicion many of them are playing gi joe when they dress up like an solider and go hunting.

2) talking about an aderline rush when hunting. I meet many hunters (hey I live in Texas!) who talk about hunting like it is a rush. Rush for what?...only the animal was in danger not the hunter. I think some of them see the killing as a rush as they are not in danger. It is a step not a leap for a few to see humans as a more neccessary rush than animals.

3) The drinking culture. I go hiking a lot with my camera. When I go I take my poodle my camera, a book food and water. The reason is I get the emotional satisfaction of sernity from hiking and photographing. Beer is going to detract from that for me. I am at peace with myself. A hunter may or may not be but I noticed that many of them (which is another issue in and of itself) drink heavily while hunting. The question is why beer? I think in a lot of ways it lowers inhibations. and makes them feel like "kicking tail just like the loser drunk feels the need to fist fight sometimes in a bar.

Gun collecting...about the ak47. I want to state for the record first off that I collect knives. I study martial arts and have about 30 blades (including one sword) but I use them in practice but do not take them outside of the school I train at or house. People don't collect automatic weapons for hunting or any other person other than collect. So what is there motive?

A rock collector is showing their appreciation for natures art. A match stick collector is collecting memories from places been. What is the reason for collection guns. Or better put what emotion comes with reality of gun collecting? The same one that comes from hunting and gun ownership in general. Security, need to control others (for some), need to be a bad-a#$ ect ect. This is a testable theory I am proposing. Next time you see a gun collector ask him about gun history types of firearms, ejection systems, ammo types, guns smithing ect......see what it is like for him to view a deer caught in headlights when he looks back at you with a blank expression on his face. Ask him about hypothicals of "kicking a%^" with his guns and you get to see all those silly fantasies so many of them have.

Now having said all this I am quick to admit that hunting as a usuful and functional purpose. Animals in many states overcrowd and we are meat eaters plus many sane people do use the guns recreationally. The problems arise from two reasons

1) we are very quick to deny the fact that gun owernship supports emotions of inadequacy in many including need for safety and control

2) Our cutlure here in the states around guns is unhealthy on many levels which lends to a quicker justification of use of guns to achieve ones goals or desires.

I think we have a serious issue as a country when it comes to guns and strickter laws is needed to address that and to say we don't have issues on a macro level is to lie or be in a state of denial.

[cfer]

Wow, Robtex. That was really well thought out and nicely put. Before reading your post I would've said that I was not for stricter gun control laws. I'm not so sure now. All I know is I have to do some serious thinking about this one, now that I've got other points to think about.

I think you make a great point in showing that the problem is not not the collection but the collectOR. If a gun enthusiast could tell you all that information, "gun history types of firearms, ejection systems, ammo types, guns smithing ect", I'm willing to bet he's a very responsible individual and not the type to think he's a bada$$. I'm generalizing, of course, because there's always exceptions to the rules.

Why do you think it is that other cultures, such as the Asian ones, don't have as much problems with violence, even though they've got more of a history with martial arts and the like? For example, China and Japan have had systems of fighting (including many different types of weapons) for way longer than we have, and yet they don't seem to have problems with violence like we do. Do you think it's related to that feeling of inadequacy? Do you think it's that pervasive in our society?

I live in Minnesota, and hunting is huge here, too. Every fall duck, pheasant, and deer season brings many, many visitors to our state. Some are legitimate hunters. Some just like to sit in the cabin and play cards and drink beer (and, horribly, then go out hunting!).

I say if you want to make hunting the sport that it is, make it a lot more challenging. Use a bow and arrow or a knife. How is sitting in a stand all day long waiting for a deer to walk right underneath you a sport? Where is the sport in all of that??!?

[robtex]

Poor CFER lost his God now some liberal ******** are after his Gun!!! I became an atheist on this website actually so I feel you.

But, there has to be a happy medium somewhere in between. Minnosta needs hunting because of the overcrowding of dear and probably other animals.

Somewhere there has to be a medium between home made napalm and and hunting rifle. I just think that when the laws are set up that all the things should be looked at including the feelings of power invoked when holding a gun.

I am not sure about Japan and China I know they have a very socially different structure and what works in one country may not work in another. For instance I hear about lax gun control in various euro countries, mostly sweden and how low their violence rate is compared to ours. I see that as apples and oranges. Obviously there is some differences in the perception and culturlization that has led to our increased gun death rate to other countries.

If a goverment inquirey could pinpoint some of those differences than some progress could be made but with all the NRA lobbying and slick donations we just get a sales pitch year in and out that was paid for by private interests instead of researched for the common interest.

[cfer]

I don't think I lost my god. I mean, I can always find him. I know where he is, I just don't believe in him anymore....

It's also a good thing I don't own a gun so if someone wants to take it away they don't have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers....

I think we should all go back to black powder rifles. Mmm...lead-poisoned venison....

Do you think our stance on gun control could've stemmed not from colonial times but the wild west? Everyone carried a gun back then.

But you're right, the NRA does have tremendous lobbying power. If we could get some political reform done, maybe we wouldn't have to worry about lobbyists as much, either.

[Shadow Wolf]

If one is going to argue the second amendment than they would have to convince me that we need a minute man militia today as that was the context that the amendment was written under. Today we have the largest armed force in the world and their is no need for a minute man type of army

True that America does have the largest army in the world, but it can't possible be everywhere.
If some foriegn army was to invade, I would want a gun to join in to defend my country.

1) wear camo. Animals are color blind. Other hunters are not. I have the sneaking suspicion many of them are playing gi joe when they dress up like an solider and go hunting.

Animals aren't dumb. Even though color blind, if a deer, or some other animal, saw a break in the forest pattern, such as a big grey, black, or white figure, instead or the trees and leaves, it would run. The same goes for scent. If the animal smells anything that doesn't belong, it will know to run.

2) talking about an aderline rush when hunting. I meet many hunters (hey I live in Texas!) who talk about hunting like it is a rush. Rush for what?...only the animal was in danger not the hunter. I think some of them see the killing as a rush as they are not in danger. It is a step not a leap for a few to see humans as a more neccessary rush than animals.

I've never heard of someone talk about an adrenalin rush from the hunting we do in America, but I have heard of it from people who have went on safaria hunts. A safaria hunt would put the person at danger, since the animals are generally bigger, faster, and stronger, and much harder to kill.

3) The drinking culture.

Lots of people drink and do different things. Some people who drink are average joes, some are rock stars, artist, engineers, architects, etc. But not everyone who drinks hunts, and not everyone who hunts drinks.

What is the reason for collection guns. Or better put what emotion comes with reality of gun collecting?

There is much history in gun collecting. Back in the wild west, when a gun was almost mandatory, much progress was made with guns. Around the time of WW1, automatics were starting to be more widly used. A true collector would get a since of pride owning an original colt, gatling, or any other revolutionary gun, or a gun who was owned by a famous person.

1) we are very quick to deny the fact that gun owernship supports emotions of inadequacy in many including need for safety and control

A gun beats a blade. So if some street punk pulls out a gun, a knife wont help, since youll be dead before you can get close enough to use it. If Im on the streets of a big city, I feel much safer knowing that I stand a chance in defending myself against some street punk.

2) Our cutlure here in the states around guns is unhealthy on many levels which lends to a quicker justification of use of guns to achieve ones goals or desires.

What goals and desires can be acomplished with gun use, besides hunting, or some illegal activity? It wont help you get a job, a loan, becom a millionair, get a promotion, or make you a home owner.

I feel that respect for guns should be taught in school. That a gun should not be touched unless necesarry. It wont work entirly, but it would help.