Hopeless Defeat

[Mjolnir]

Why do we, as humans, always glorify hopeless defeat? It is a recurrent theme throughout literature, movies, religion, and the actual events in history that pertain to hopeless defeat are glorified and remembered. Is there even a glory in hopeless defeat? When everything and everyone is against you, the odds stacked high, why keep going? Why keep what you are doing up even though there is no hope?

[Willamena]

Example? Do you mean like the movie '300' about Sparta?

[Ringer]

Probably because the prospect of overcoming the odds and succeeding is greater than the certainty of giving up and failing anyway.

[Mjolnir]

Originally Posted by Willamena

Example? Do you mean like the movie '300' about Sparta?

Well, that would be one example. There are plenty of other examples in modern culture: LOTR, Star Wars, The Matrix, sports.... In religion you could take the example of Lucifer, , Buddha, Arjuna... But my question is why do we always glorify it? Why, what is the point if it is hopeless? If there is no chance whatsoever that you will triumph, why?

[Alex_G]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Why do we, as humans, always glorify hopeless defeat? It is a recurrent theme throughout literature, movies, religion, and the actual events in history that pertain to hopeless defeat are glorified and remembered. Is there even a glory in hopeless defeat? When everything and everyone is against you, the odds stacked high, why keep going? Why keep what you are doing up even though there is no hope?

You wouldnt continue if you were devoid of hope or motive. I think its more a linguistical thing that we say 'hopelessness' when we mean not much hope at all.

Why do we have such ability to endure great odds? Why wouldnt we. Why is it in the movies? Well it makes damn good watching

[3.14]

because lets face it reality is boring, but if we glorify defeat we can belief in things wich odds are stacked high against it

[zenzero]

Friend Mjolnir,
Whenever their is a defeat there is also a win on the other side.
*Glorification* is the business of the mind.
By reading them shows your MIND is still active when it should be silent to know the actual truth of whatever you wish to know.
Love & rgds

[Phasmid]

Maybe it's just the acceptance of the inevitable. You know you're going to die, you accept it and find peace in death, perhaps?

[Caladan]

Let me quote a certain Dwarf.. " ertainty of death, *small* chance of success... What are we waiting for?"

perhaps its part of us that wants to be immortalized through the glory of facing unfavorable odds, but perhaps there is something much more realistic and practical behind hopeless defeats, or what is perhaps better known as last stands.
through out history there were battles that although they supposedly ended with 'defeat', in the bigger picture they have given hope, showed defiance in the face of brutality, demonstrated standing one's ground, and in some cases brought a victory in the long run.

This topic brings battles such as the the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, Defense of Sihang Warehouse, and of course the battle of Thermopylae, the latter brought the Greek victory in the long run;
The fierce resistance of the Spartan-led army offered Athens the invaluable time to prepare for a decisive naval battle that would determine the outcome of the war. The subsequent Greek victory at the Battle of Salamis left much of the Persian Empire's navy destroyed and Xerxes retreated to Asia, leaving a force in Greece under Mardonius, who was to complete the subjugation of the Greeks. The Spartans assembled at full strength and led a pan-Greek army that defeated the main Persian force at the Battle of Plataea. This battle ended the Greco-Persian War and the expansion of the Persian Empire into Europe.