morals (ritual, spiritual, religion, science)

[jonjohnrob11]

Hey Lightkeeper: i totally agree that we determine for ourselves our morals by our choices. the demonstration with chopsticks was only an ethical tradition i mentioned that it might offend an asian, while eating dinner with him/her, that we at least try to use chopsticks. not only do we have religious and innate morals, the same applies to ethics.

[jonjohnrob11]

ceri018: abortion is against God's law and is socially acceptable to the media and most democrats. but the majority of our citizens don't accept baby killing just the baby killers.

[jonjohnrob11]

ceri018: abortion is against God's law and is socially acceptable to the media and most democrats. but the majority of our citizens don't accept baby killing just the baby killers.

[Ceridwen018]

jonjohnrob11,

That's a very good point, I hadn't thought about that. (for the record, I am extremely pro-life). I guess that just goes to show that there are many different sets of morals which one can get away with in this world. So yes, indeed abortion is socially acceptable, and whether or not you personally accept it depends on the type of person you are, how you were raised, etc.

[Ceridwen018]

jonjohnrob11,

That's a very good point, I hadn't thought about that. (for the record, I am extremely pro-life). I guess that just goes to show that there are many different sets of morals which one can get away with in this world. So yes, indeed abortion is socially acceptable, and whether or not you personally accept it depends on the type of person you are, how you were raised, etc.

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by jonjohnrob11

ceri018: abortion is against God's law and is socially acceptable to the media and most democrats. but the majority of our citizens don't accept baby killing just the baby killers.

Jon,

Let me begin by saying that I enjoy reading your posts. While I might not agree with all that you say, I think you do an admirable job of stating your positions. That said, I have to respond to this post.

First, abortion may be against YOUR version of God and his law, but it is not necessarily against the law of all people's version of God (or Gods). Atheists don't even believe in God, let alone any of "his laws". That would be a tough sell for you in a discussion with an Atheist.

Secondly, whether abortion is killing babies or not is even more open to debate than the first part of the statement about God's law. Many people would make the argument that no baby is killed during an abortion, since they do not see a fetus as a baby.

I am not trying to debate you or anyone else on abortion or God's laws, just trying to illustrate that when one is making a comment about morals in general, that you can make NO assumptions on the universallity of any given position. That is the very heart of this thread.

Just to make certain that I am not misunderstood, I am not an Atheist, but an Agnostic. In other words, I am not arguing the Atheist position for them (there are enough Atheists that participate in this forum), I am merely pointing out that not everyone would agree with either the "God's Law" or "abortion is murder" stance.

[jonjohnrob11]

religious: the supreme court stated that life begins at birth, contrary to science that states it begins at conception. the supreme court qualified that a "fetus" is viable life. that makes it murder with a flair. that eases their conscience. that "fetus" is not a dog or cat fetus it is a human fetus. rocks and air exist. plants exist and have life. animals exist, have life and a spirit. humans have all three plus a soul. only humans know their ancestors, keep records, and show hundreds of different emotions not just instinct like animals because they have a soul. we are taught what's right from wrong by our parents and guardians, our peers, society, government and religions. one is usually born into the culture of their family, pick their friends, nation, society, and religion. because they all differ in what is right and wrong, we must choose when able the institution we most respect as to how we will believe and act. because of this their is much conflict which results many times in death. that fetus only becomes a baby if u want to keep it. otherwise u can not care whether it has the same chance as u and i to live and develope. it has a soul and therefore needs love. the love of animals is mistaken for their instincts. only a soul can love or hate. that poor child in the womb is defenseless and needs protection, just like us sometimes. it is real. it is not just a glob of plasma waiting to be born. it has life just like us and deserves the right to life just like us. it may be a future scientist, teacher, doctor, lawyer, or common laborer; but it does have a future just like us. it is not right to deny it or any one else the chance to live and love. abortion is a multi-billion dollar a year industry. 4 million babies a year are sacrificed for the convenience of the mother who will suffer mental anguish for years. the counselors and receptionists in an abortion clinic are replaced every three months because of psychological damage. in fact they cant find replacements in the u.s. to the extent that they have to hire foreigners. the same happened to the guards in the concentration camps who killed jews and catholics because the catholics were the main supporters of hiding jews and spreading anti-nazi information. genocide, haulocausts, and abortions are abhorent and end in death. even atheists agree that abortions are murder, as well as moslems and jews and christians. in ages past abortions have been legal. one third of our families and friends were killed before we knew them.

as for being agnostic i will give u two proofs of the existence of our Creator. u see a watch u know there is a watchmaker, u see creation u know their is a Creator. space can't end which is both logical and illogical. only God could create infinite space. if can reason at all, u would readily see these two analogies. if not u r just fooling urself and in denial. there are 22 other proofs of the existence of God listed in thomas aquinas' book, summa theologica. thanks for the complement. death is universal and all should be preserved. u have some good insights.

[jonjohnrob11]

***MOD POST***

Double post

[jonjohnrob11]

***MOD POST***

Triple Post

[trishtrish10]

the ten commandments define what is truly right and wrong as well as the catechism which elaborates on it. all else is a matter of ethics, according to individuals, families, religious customs or traditions, governments, societies, and institutions, etc.