Is Panentheism a form of Pantheism? (creation, hell, atheist, God)

[Starlight]

Hello everyone

I was thinking about Pantheism and Panentheism before, and I'm not sure about one thing with them... According to Wikipedia, Pantheism is generally a belief that "God is All" and "All is God". There are two main kinds of it, Naturalistic Pantheism and Classical Pantheism. While the first kind is a kind of an "atheistic Pantheism" and doesn't include the belief in any personal God/universal consciousness/etc., the second kind states that there's a personal God, which is the sum of all existence.

At the same time, Panentheism also views God in a personal way, and states that the Universe is contained within God, but God is much more than just the Universe.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Panentheism is just a form (or maybe even just another name for) Classical Pantheism, and the only differences in the definitions are semantical... for example, Panentheism states that God encompasses the Universe, but also goes beyond it... and Pantheism states that God is All, and the classical version of it states that God is conscious and personal. In the first definition, the Universe is just a fragment of existence, so it's just a part of "All". That's how I think that Panentheism also states that God is All, and All is God, but just defines All as something more than just the physical Universe.... so it perfectly fits the definition of Pantheism. So, I'm curious... Do you think that what I posted makes sense?

[Wandered Off]

My understanding is that panentheism allows for the possibility that a part of God is separate from the material universe, while pantheism does not. The way I first learned it is that pantheism has no place for a 'personal' God, while panentheism allows for one.

I realize this conflicts with the Wiki definition of "classical pantheism", but nevertheless, that was my understanding. Wiki's definition looks equivocal, IMO, and I can see how it would lead to the conclusion that the two are essentially the same.

[Starlight]

Thanks for the reply! Maybe the naturalistic version of pantheism is more well known... Wikipedia says that most people who self-identify as pantheists are naturalistic pantheists.

[giant space amoeba]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

My understanding is that panentheism allows for the possibility that a part of God is separate from the material universe

That sounds more like pandeism

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Atomic Amoeba

That sounds more like pandeism

I think that pandeism is a little different... it says that God was personal in the beginning, and then he created the Universe by actually becoming it, so now God is the impersonal Universe... and it says that everything will be brought back together to form a personal God again in the end.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Starlight

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Panentheism is just a form (or maybe even just another name for) Classical Pantheism, and the only differences in the definitions are semantical...

Pantheism says that God and creation are identical, whereas panentheism says that God is in the universe but is also more than just the universe. I see that as more than just a semantic difference.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Pantheism says that God and creation are identical, whereas panentheism says that God is in the universe but is also more than just the universe. I see that as more than just a semantic difference.

It all depends if you define pantheism as "the creation is God" or as "all is God", because in the second case there's nothing to prevent "all" from being more than just the universe.

[Feathers in Hair]

I believe the term 'panethism' was created in order to distinguish a type of though from the other term. From what little I've read, I think there's a major difference between the two.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Starlight

Is Panentheism a form of Pantheism?

No, though it's a common mistake.

In fact, pantheism and panentheism aren't even forms of theism.

Reposting from another forum:

Storm Wrote:
Theists believe that God is a deity (an entity that is by definition supernatural and separate from the universe, unbound by the laws of nature) who created the cosmos.

Panentheists are much closer to pantheists than theists, the only difference being the scope of the divine being. As an atheist believes that his body is his entire being, the source of his consciousness and lacking any immortal aspect beyond the atoms that compose it, so the pantheist believes that the universe is the totality of God. As the Christian believes that his body is only a vessel, and his true being an eternal soul, so I - a panentheist - believe that the universe as we know it is only a single (and possibly likewise mortal, however long-lived) aspect of God.

Both theologies are incompatible with any concept of the supernatural (being outside of, or capable of overriding the laws of nature), and do not believe that God is a deity, or the deliberate Creator of the universe. To us, the universe is simply an aspect of a living entity - God. The laws of nature are functions of God, as vital and binding to it as the functions of biology are to us. As your heart must beat, and your blood must have oxygen if you are to be alive, so the laws of nature are inviolate to the divine being.

However, both theologies are open to the possibility of phenomena that are commonly referred to as "supernatural, " such as psychic abilities, ghosts, angels, and the like. We simply believe that these are things which human science is currently unable to explain. (Quite possibly for no reason beyond the fact that, for the most part, it steadfastly refuses to acknowledge the possibility that such things might exist, and thus refuses to seriously investigate them.)

BTW, am I the only actual panentheist here?

[Feathers in Hair]

Namaste and welcome, Storm! Glad to have you with us!

In fact, we have a number of members that are panentheists. (Or at least involve that as an aspect of their path.)