Theosis (Jesus, ritual, Latter-Day Saints, Earth, tradition)

[Random]

Anyone ever heard of it? It means becoming like God or attaining to a State of Being in harmony or union with God.

Eastern Orthodox Christianity retains the doctrine to some degree whilst some Roman Catholic theologians lament its disuse. Any opinions? Is Theosis the same as Enlightenment or Gnosis? Does it all ammount to the same transcendent thing (as I believe)?

I reckon I won't get a single reply to this...

[ayani]

i'm reading about it now via Wiki and other sites. it's certainly interesting.

as Theosis assumes the existence of a supreme Being with whom the finite (us) can experience union or communion, and as not all traditions that use the term "enlightenment" are theistic, comparing the two may not be useful. i'd shy away from it, at least.

i'm reminded of Jesus saying "be thou perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect". could this be an allusion to theosis?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Godlike

Anyone ever heard of it? It means becoming like God or attaining to a State of Being in harmony or union with God.

Eastern Orthodox Christianity retains the doctrine to some degree whilst some Roman Catholic theologians lament its disuse. Any opinions? Is Theosis the same as Enlightenment or Gnosis? Does it all ammount to the same transcendent thing (as I believe)?

I reckon I won't get a single reply to this...

You reckon wrong. The Latter-day Saints believe in the doctrine of Eternal Progression, or Deification. It's not identical to Theosis, I'm sure, but it's related. Here's what C.S. Lewis said on the subject (and yes, I am aware that he was not LDS. ). Nevertheless, he couldn't have expressed the LDS perspective on the subject more perfectly if he'd tried.

“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

[Random]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

You reckon wrong. The Latter-day Saints believe in the doctrine of Eternal Progression, or Deification. It's not identical to Theosis, I'm sure, but it's related. Here's what C.S. Lewis said on the subject (and yes, I am aware that he was not LDS. ). Nevertheless, he couldn't have expressed the LDS perspective on the subject more perfectly if he'd tried.

“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

Wow, that exactly describes my concept of it too! Appreciate that, Katzpur.

[Rolling_Stone]

[Earth] mortals can hardly hope to be perfect in the infinite sense, but it is entirely possible for human beings, starting out as they do on this planet, to attain the supernal and divine goal which the infinite God has set for mortal man; and when they do achieve this destiny, they will, in all that pertains to self-realization and mind attainment, be just as replete in their sphere of divine perfection as God himself is in his sphere of infinity and eternity. Such perfection may not be universal in the material sense, unlimited in intellectual grasp, or final in spiritual experience, but it is final and complete in all finite aspects of divinity of will, perfection of personality motivation, and God-consciousness. (from The URANTIA Book, P. 22)

As the poet said, "We are different than God in degree; not in kind." (FYI, I used to be "Mormon.")

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Random

Anyone ever heard of it? It means becoming like God or attaining to a State of Being in harmony or union with God.

Eastern Orthodox Christianity retains the doctrine to some degree whilst some Roman Catholic theologians lament its disuse. Any opinions? Is Theosis the same as Enlightenment or Gnosis? Does it all ammount to the same transcendent thing (as I believe)?

I reckon I won't get a single reply to this...

Orthodoxy does not retain theosis 'to some degree' - it is absolutely central to our soteriology. Whatever gave you the idea that we had somehow allowed it to slip into disuse? The doctrine is that we can become by grace what God is by nature because we progress in perfection and communion with Him. It starts in this life and has no end (perfection is something we can never actually achieve), not even in the next life. It is an eternal progression. In that way, and the need for a God, it is quite different to Enlightenment. In other ways it is fairly similar. It is absolutely nothing like Gnosis, however, as that idea presupposes some knowledge that can save you - such knowledge is entirely absent from theosis.

I would suggest that if you want to understand theosis, you look into the writings of St. Athanasios of Alexandria and St. Gregory Palamas and that you also investigate hesychasm, which is the practice that we use to help us work on ourselves in order to progress in the process of theosis. I don't know a single person in my Church who doesn't practice hesychastic discipline to some degree, which is why I was so shocked by your suggestion that theosis was anything other than vital to Orthodox theology. If you got that from some source that you've read, rather than it being an eroneous personal opinion, then you need better ones (and why not ask about this in the EO forum first? I would have quickly dealt with your misunderstanding).

James

[autonomous1one1]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

You reckon wrong. The Latter-day Saints believe in the doctrine of Eternal Progression, or Deification. It's not identical to Theosis, I'm sure, but it's related. Here's what C.S. Lewis said on the subject (and yes, I am aware that he was not LDS. ). Nevertheless, he couldn't have expressed the LDS perspective on the subject more perfectly if he'd tried.

“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

Greeting Katz. Are you still with us on this thread? I am curious as to how 'Exhaltation' fits with the 'Deification' you describe here?

[DeepShadow]

Yeah, how would you relate those, Katz? I'd be inclined to say that deification is the end result of exaltation, but there may be more to it. I'll search around.