Pagans & Magic (ritual, beliefs, spiritual, God, verse)

[OneStraw Revolutionary]

Keep in mind I have little experience with magic, and I find myself having a hard time keeping an open mind about it. I'm more inclined to think it spiritual, that wherever it is spirits reside, magic is a natural part of such a place.

We're talking about magic, and what pagans think it is, and I'm curious as to what experiences you had to conclude such. Thus far I have been taught a couple magical techniques that are intended to protect me. Of course, I could say "I must be doing this right, because I didn't die today!" but I'm not so inclined to make a leap of blind faith. I take it neither are most pagans.

So, what have you seen that made you feel that way?

[FantasyDream]

I believe that magic is a natural thing...using energies and focusing/directing it toward a certain purpose or goal. I think that a spiritual power/deity would enhance the results and the amount of energy that could be raised.

[kreeden]

Originally Posted by OneStraw Revolutionary

So, what have you seen that made you feel that way?

I believe that each of us have to answer that question for ourselves . One believes , or they explain it in some other way .

Not sure if I feel completely comfortible listing some of the things I have seen ? But the thing is , I still question . And I have no other answer other then a thing called Magic .

Ok , one thing that I have admitted to before is forseeing the future in dreams . Meeting a person and being able to describe them in detail after a dream , when I had never seen or heard any other description of them . { actually , in one case I never did meet them , she was a friend's girlfriend }.

[NeoWayland]

Hmm, complicated.

I think that the ideas of "natural" and "supernatural" arose from the assumption that Man was seperate from Nature.

"Supernatural" depends on the definition of "natural."

If you had told me when I was twelve that I would have access to a massive computer network that would put almost the whole of human knowledge at my fingertips, I would have called that supernatural.

And a fantasy besides.

It's a curious conceit that we humans believe that we "know" everything at a given point, and that anything outside mainstream knowledge is supernatural. The fact that we didn't know about radio waves in the 1850s doesn't mean that radio waves didn't exist then, it just means that our worldview didn't include the possiblity.

If you pressed me for a definition, that is one way I might define magick. The ability to step outside of a given worldview and return with a practical solution. I think it is the ability to move across borders that gives magick it's power.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Radio Frequency X

As a pagan, I respect all superstitions and beliefs, though I do not necessarily believe in many of them. I am interested in what the pagans here at RF think is the relationship between magic and the supernatural/spiritual. Is magic simply a natural activity that affects the individual performing it, or is there a spiritual power(s) involved?

I'm not a pagan, but I believe that magic is a meaning that we give to an observation. When we cast a spell, when we cast lots, when we cast illusion over something, we impart meaning to the item or event as we saw it. It is magical in that from our perspective the universe works to fulfil our needs with non-physical effort on our part.

The supernatural is the most magical thing of all, because it is not in reach of our observing, and hence nothing we could control even if we wanted to; but it affords us a tool to understand ourselves better. We recognize apparently intelligent forces at work, maniuplating the universe for or against us, and when we make that interpretation of magical things, it opens up the possibility of the universe magically reflecting unconscious understanding back at us.

[Zephyr]

I consider Magic to be someone just getting the results they wanted. Sort of like my lucky coat. Probably nothing really, but if it helps let it be.

Then again, I stay away from magic at all costs. In my traditions, such work is for the fairer sex.

[kreeden]

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Then again, I stay away from magic at all costs. In my traditions, such work is for the fairer sex.

And Odin ... Sorry , couldn't help myself . Each to their own Zephyr . Personally I have my own reasons for not " practicing " Magic " myself , as in " casting spells ".

[Zephyr]

Originally Posted by kreeden

And Odin ... Sorry , couldn't help myself . Each to their own Zephyr . Personally I have my own reasons for not " practicing " Magic " myself , as in " casting spells ".

Haha, yeah, and he got a lot of crap for it. I've seen many reasons for not practicing. Some of my friends simply just feel no need.