Respect for life (ritual, Creator, Earth, soul, grace)

[blessed]

i am a vegan and i take no supplements - everyone probably should omni's included but i am proof that a vegan diet is easy and healthy as for us being more omnivore have you checked the other veg thread topic as there is proof (written by an omnivore!) that proves the human body is about 98% herbivore.

i do not convert people to my wa of thinking so if i come off harsh or blunt please pay no attention as this is something i feel very strongly about! :P

[Master Vigil]

No worries blessed. I understand where your coming from. If I wasn't a wolf, I would be a vegetarian too. I even tried once, but I couldn't do it. Meat just tastes too damn good to me. HEHE!! *As I howl deep into the heart of the full moon!!!!*

I am very pleased that you feel strongly about it. And I am glad you are healthy and happy.

[painted wolf]

I acually tried to be vegitarian for a short time...
but I kept getting sick to my stomach....
It was really wierd, so I stoped... ops:
My plant relations getting back at me maybe?


wa:-do

[Death]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

I agree with painted wolf, damn i love the native americans!! all things with life have a soul, the soul before all else gives them life.

Nah, it's the chemical nature of amino acids before everything else that gives life.

To take one and not the other disturbs balance. We as humans are, and always were, omnivores. This is because in the beginning, we had balance, we could eat both. But if you eat one more than the other this balance is disturbs. Granted you can live healthily as a vegetarian but it takes too much effort.

Vegetarians without eggs and a few other "fringe" animal products, possibly. Vegetarian diets with those things does just fine.

Balance is easy to follow, but still hard to maintain. And of course, I feel the same way that when having a garden, one should respect the plants as much as when having a cattle ranch. No one thanks the plants and animals anymore when they eat them. Humans think they are above nature. Stupid humans!!

Why thank the animals/plants? They don't care, they're dead. Ever see a lion thank the buffalo carcass it's chomping into?

Also, though plants don't have a central neural system, they do have a chemical system of detecting injury and even light touches.

Originally Posted by Blessed

i definately see your point about the plants but as maz said we need to eat something and as far as this planet goes it takes lot less ground et.c to grow plants for consumption than animals- plus it is true that the whole planet ould live on a vegetarian diet with no starvation. the cattle and pigs would stop being bred intensively and slowly drop in numbers until they reached a steady state. the money that was being spent on feed for the animals, slaughter houses and land could be used for land and seeds saving a lot of money and feeding more people.

i would never try to stop a person eating meat but it is important to aknowledge that this planet is in need of our help

Intensive farming is damaging to the environment, and harvesting of the crops kills millions of animals unintentionally every year that we don't even use for meat.

Organic farming isn't much better. How do you think they get rid of parasites and other nasties that mess with the crops? They put in more predators, which again, damages the environment.

The trouble with the "all the land used for meat could be used for crops" simply isn't true. Not all land is equally fertile, which is why farmers have different types of field, be they grazing or crops.

Steven Davis, professor of animal science at Oregon State University (at least one study has shown that simply mowing an alfalfa field caused a 50% reduction in the gray-tailed vole population)

The Least Harm Principle Suggests that Humans Should Eat Beef, Lamb, Dairy, not a Vegan Diet. - The following abstract and the aforementioned title were written by S.L. Davis, Department of Animal Sciences, Oregon State University, Corvallis

Happy reading. :P

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Death

The Least Harm Principle Suggests that Humans Should Eat Beef, Lamb, Dairy, not a Vegan Diet. - The following abstract and the aforementioned title were written by S.L. Davis, Department of Animal Sciences, Oregon State University, Corvallis

Interesting. I have heard this used before to argue against vegetarianism. No where near convincing enough for me to go back to eating meat though, since I had several reasons for becoming vegetarian, not just to save the animals lol. I think this article just illustrates the problems in agricultural farming today in all areas. It's become mechanical and not natural. This is why I buy as much produce as I can from the local farmer's market and get veggies from my grandmother (she still plants a HUGE garden even though she lives alone now, so everyone gets veggies from her :P ). Yes, I'm sure a few animals are killed or distrubed in those gardens as well, (you don't want to be a snake in my grandmother's garden :shock: ), but I feel better knowing my money is not going to some big corporation that doesn't care at all.

That theory totally discounts the fact that animals raised for food have to be fed. The majority of oats and corn harvested are fed to animals raised for food - not humans. The vast majority of cattle do not obtain their food by foraging. I think the writer of that article was looking for a way to justify eating meat when, if he is a Animal Science professor, he must know of the horrors that go on in big factory farming of animals and he knows how much better plant protein is for you compared with animal protein. Here's my suggestion to anyone concerned about all those animals killed in farm machinary on vegetable farms. Support small, local farmers and figure out a way to stop the killing of animals instead of using your time to try to convince vegetarians to eat meat again.

But then again, we all have different ethics and what is important to us. Just like one person look at the graphic images of slaughter houses and decide not to eat dead animals and another person can look at it and say "whatever" and continue eating their hamburger and it not bother them a bit. I don't have a problem with other people eating meat, if that's their informed decision to do so. But for me, the overwhelming conclusion I came to, considering the health issues, the animal welfare issues, environmental issus, etc., was that I should not be eating meat. I know another person will look at the same things I did, and come to the opposite conclusion, that it's ok from them to eat meat, because________ (whatever reason they give). This is why I try not to push or talk anyone into becoming vegetarian. If they are interested in it and ask me questions, I will tell them everything I know and how I feel about it, but in the end, it's up to them. I didn't become vegetarian overnight. It was literally a couple years process of learning and researching and trying it out, but then going back to eating some meat, to finally I just realized it was right for me and I was going to do it.

Sorry, rambled again.... ops: But here's a link for the opposite view of the one post above:
Least harm: a defense of vegetarianism from Steven Davis’s omnivorous proposal (submission to the Journal of Agricultural and Environmental Ethics, January 2003)

Maize
8)

[Master Vigil]

"Nah, it's the chemical nature of amino acids before everything else that gives life."

That may be your definition of a soul? And maybe I believe that the chemical nature of amino acids came from the soul. Who knows, its your opinion against mine. Fighting will get us no where.

"Vegetarians without eggs and a few other "fringe" animal products, possibly. Vegetarian diets with those things does just fine."

I was specifically talking about the ones that don't eat any animal products.

[blessed]

farming has problems granted but at least pre cautions to not hurt animals is being taken (organic ) even though animals are hurt it is still a better alternative to slaughtering animals look at it from the energy point of view.

energy----------to plants --------------------------to animals -----------------------to US


vegans and vegetarians get more of the

energy--------------------to plants----------------------------to US



this is only a very simplified verision but it gives you a general jist, arty:

[painted wolf]

If I just ate the meat of animals I might agree more. But I try to use everything from the animal.
Skin, bone, sinue, hoves ('native crafts' and regailia/ spiritual use)... fat for soap...

did you know jello and other gelitin products are just boiled down bone and hooves... wired.

J...e...l...l... eww... mg: but its handy for making your own jellys and jams...

What I hate most other than the lack of respect in the modern food industry is the terrible waste.

wa:-do

[Green Gaia]

Yes, I had learned that about gelatin soon after becoming vegetarian. So I avoid Jello and all other things that contain gelatin, as much as I possibly can. It's really gross, if you think about it. mg:

[Master Vigil]

Yeah the waste ****** me off too. All the major food companies dump a portion of there food into the oceans so to keep demand and prices up. How disgusting is that!!!