Nature religions and poor culture. (Earth, tradition, beliefs, blood)

[SaraLee]

I love the quote too. Thanks for posting it's source.

SaraLee

[Hirohito18200]

In response to your original question, i think that as far as enlightenment is concerned, it would all depend on the religion, because they can all fulfill themselves in their own ways. If you want to be more objective, i think it would be safe to say that the idea of being detached from nature has proved to be a powerful and influential concept in the development of different cultures. Sad to look and see where it's gotten ours...

[Master Vigil]

I didn't ask if it was poweful or influential in the development of a culture. A culture can develop prosperously and not be enlightening to anyone. I didn't generalize when I said enlightenment, take it within all of its forms.

[CJW]

I cannot say that he Jews could just make it all up the way that Neitzsche and other pagans did.

Example,
http://mynym.blogspot.com/2004/10/bible.html#comments

[painted wolf]

CJW perhaps you have the wrong forum for attacking Paganism? This is not the forum for that sort of thing, this is ment to be a discussion of paganism and paganist ideas.

and sorry to say but yes the jews could have just as easily 'made it all up' like any other group.

Also Neitzche is not a pagan he is Athiest.

Back on subject, the idea of enlightenment can be tricky. Does a religion need to teach enlightenment or can it just provide a framework for social responcibility and happyness? Is that enlightening in and of itself?
Does one need to feel conected to everything to be enlightend?

Personally I think it would be nice and help us with a lot of the problems that we have in modern society. But hey, I'm biased to the whole connected to nature thing.

wa:do

[Hirohito18200]

Originally Posted by painted wolf

Back on subject, the idea of enlightenment can be tricky. Does a religion need to teach enlightenment or can it just provide a framework for social responcibility and happyness? Is that enlightening in and of itself?
Does one need to feel conected to everything to be enlightend?

Ya, and I don't think we should attempt to define enlightment in this thread, because that is such a general term. Vigil, are you refering to your form of enlightenment or what? I don't want to have to generalize, but you didn't specify in the thread.

[Master Vigil]

I didn't specify because I meant it in a general term. To wake up to some sort of realization (whatever that realization can differ with each religion). I do not even believe enlightenment is the same for every person in the same religion.

[kreeden]

Why are you all talking only about Religion ? There is a difference between a Religion and Spiritualism you know ? Both can lead to " enlightment " , only one tells you how to find it , where the other allows you to find your own way . I think that before you answer the question about " nature based religions " you have to realize that most are / were not " religions " at all . They were / are Spiritual Paths . Which in it's self take a very different approach to ... the Spiritual . Not sure if that is the best term to use , but you should get my drift .

BTW many Religions do have Spiritualist sects , as Spiritaulism can have a Religious side . But they always take a somewhat different approach in their means of understanding . Judaism and the Kabbalah for excample .

[Master Vigil]

Religion is basically the meeting of the divine. Most of the time with worship. I agree with you that there is a difference between religion and spirituality. But if one worships something, that is religion. And most nature based religions worshipped something. Be it the sun, the forest, the mountain, whatever. Also a religion would have moral codes, which many nature based religions possessed. One can be a spiritual person, and not worship anything, yes. But that is not what I am talking about. One can be spiritual by just building a motorcycle, or listening to music. But this is not what I am talking about.

Oh and by the way, spiritualism is a religion in which mediums are used to contact the dead. Originating in europe, but made popular in america by the fox sisters. Some spiritualist churches still exist today, one actually exists about 20 minutes from my home. But yes, spiritualism is still a religion. And the sects you speak of, are normally called the mystic sides. Mysticism is what transcends religion. It is like, spiritual feelings grow to be a religion. And religious feelings grow to be mysticism.

[kreeden]

Ok , there are older meaning for these terms . For excample , when one talks about Jewish Spiritualism , one is usually talking about the Kabbalah , something outside the standart Religion .

Religion implies a set standart of moral codes , worship , and the like . In other words , a Religion tends to have a dogma . A code set down by some authority .

Yes , listening to music can be spiritual , just like walking into a church can be considered by some as religious . But there is more to it then that . A Spiritual Path is one's own search for God . Without having others TELL you how to go about it . You find your own Way , with a little help from friends . Aleister Crowley has a Spiritual man , but I wouldn't call him Religious .

We can set our own moral codes , but that doesn't make us religious . We can worship our own version of a Creator , but that alone doesn't make us religious . Can one be Spiritual and not worship anything ? I don't think so . One would have to believe in something at the very lest . Perhaps not worship in the same way a religion worships , but that is the whole point . Spirituality is a personal Path .

Yes , some channelers / mediums call themselves Spiritaulist . But that does mean their way is the onlt Spiritual way . And is it a religion ? That would depend upon your defination of religion ...