Questions bout LDS for Squirt (Jesus Christ, Latter-Day Saints, Earth, followers)

[Geoffthe3rd]

Well to open off i've been raised to believe that mormons believe that if they are good enough the men will recieve their own planets and the women will have to populate them. Is this true?

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by Geoffthe3rd

Well to open off i've been raised to believe that mormons believe that if they are good enough the men will recieve their own planets and the women will have to populate them. Is this true?

Geoff,

I've been asked this question (or a derivitive of it) so many times that a long time ago, I took the time to write an explantion of the doctrine of Eternal Progression for future use. Maybe this will get us started on our discussion:

The Latter-day Saints are frequently accused of believing that they can, at some point in the future, become "Gods." Understandably, to many who do not fully understand our doctrine, the mere idea is out-and-out heresy.

But, let's start by changing “Gods” to “gods.” That lower-case “g” makes a world of difference in the meaning of the word. Next, before we really get started, let's clear up two big, big misconceptions:

(1) We do not believe that any of us will ever be equal to God, our Eternal Father in Heaven. He will always be our God and we will always worship Him.

(2) Nothing we could possibly do on our own could exalt us to the level of deity. It is only through the will and grace of God that man is given this potential. And "with God, nothing is impossible."

We believe, as you may know, that ours is a restoration of the very Church Jesus Christ established during His ministry here on earth. It would follow, then, that we believe we are teaching the same doctrines as were taught then and accepted by Jesus’ followers. Throughout the New Testament, there are indications that this doctrine (known as deification or exaltation) is not one the Latter-day Saints invented, but that the earliest Christians understood and believed it, as well.

Romans 8:16-17, 2 Peter 1:4, Revelation 2:26-27 and Revelation 3:21 are the four I like best. Through these verses, we learn that, as children of God, we may also be His heirs, joint-heirs with Christ, even glorified with Him. We might partake of the nature of divinity and be allowed to sit with our Savior on His throne, to rule over the nations.

Now, if these promises are true (as I believe they are), what do they all boil down to? To the Latter-day Saints, they mean that we have the potential to someday, be “godlike.” One of our prophets explained that "we are gods in embryo." If our Father is divine and we are literally his "offspring", as the Bible teaches we are, is it really such a stretch of the imagination to believe that he has endowed each of us with a spark of divinity?

Finally, there is considerable evidence that the doctrine of deification was taught for quite some time after the Savior’s death, and accepted as orthodox. Some of the most well-known and respected of the early Christian Fathers made statements that were remarkably close to the statements LDS leaders have made. For example:

In the second century, Saint Irenaeus said, “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.” He also posed this question: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and than later as Gods?” At about the same period of time, Saint Clement made this statement: “The Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.” And Saint Justin Martyr agreed, saying that men are “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.” Some two centuries later, Athanasius explained that “the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.” And, finally, Augustine, said, “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.” Even today, a similar (though definitely not identical) doctrine is taught in some of the Eastern Orthodox churches.

Even the noted Christian theologian, C.S. Lewis, said much the same thing in his book "Mere Christianity."

“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

Finally, according to The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology, “Deification (Greek theosis) is for Orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is made in the image and likeness of God…. It is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become god by grace.”

Just one comment about your question specifically. We believe that husbands and wives will progress together throughout eternity. No man or woman can progress any further than his or her spouse. Finally, I know of no doctrinal source that describes our eternal progression in terms of "having our own planet and populating it." That's more or less an anti-Mormon slant on the subject.

[Squirt]

I thought you were going to post the link you posted in the other thread. Didn't you want my comments on it?

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

'

Haha. No offense, where did you get this information. It's not in official canon. You can look all you want, but it's not there. As you saw unfortunatley Barnbus thought he knew all about it.

I appreciate you taking the time to ask questions. Hope you don't mind if I answer too.

Becky,

Geoff and I decided on a one-on-one.

Squirt

[Geoffthe3rd]

Well I now understand how you can get it, but i have to disagree of course lol. One i believe the Church was established by Jesus Christ through the succession of St. Peter as figure head of the church on earth (Matt. 16:18, 1 Cor. 3:11, Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:5–6, Rev. 21:14).

Secondly i believe in the Trinity, so obviously i do not put myself on equal standing with Christ, and i interpret those scriptures as we will rule and be ruled by Christ.

Last, the whole deification at the end i interpret means we need to be Christ like who is God

[Geoffthe3rd]

um i already got this part lol

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by Geoffthe3rd

Well I now understand how you can get it, but i have to disagree of course lol. One i believe the Church was established by Jesus Christ through the succession of St. Peter as figure head of the church on earth (Matt. 16:18, 1 Cor. 3:11, Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:5–6, Rev. 21:14).

Yes, I believe that the Church was established by Jesus Christ, too, and that He gave the keys of authority to Peter. I just believe that the Apostasy foretold by the Apostles prophesied took place and that the priesthood (the power given by God to men, that they might have the authority to act in His name) was taken from the earth.

Secondly i believe in the Trinity, so obviously i do not put myself on equal standing with Christ, and i interpret those scriptures as we will rule and be ruled by Christ.

I hope I didn't lead you to believe that we put ourselves on equal standing with Christ. If I did, please reread the first section in red.

Last, the whole deification at the end i interpret means we need to be Christ like who is God

Yes, I believe we do, too.

[Squirt]

http://www.catholic.com/library/prob..._of_mormon.asp

May we discuss this? (I'm off to bed now, but I'll check back tomorrow for your answer.)

[Geoffthe3rd]

lol, well apostolic succession is proven throughout history, i am very impressed about how Catholic like LDS is, so wouldnt you think that you guys are just a seperation of the Church? Because no offense at all be we have history to back our claim

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by Geoffthe3rd

lol, well apostolic succession is proven throughout history, i am very impressed about how Catholic like LDS is, so wouldnt you think that you guys are just a seperation of the Church? Because no offense at all be we have history to back our claim

I'm not at all offended. As a matter of fact, you might find this little article kind of interesting. It's taken from "The Strength of the Mormon Position" by Orson F. Whitney:

"Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue's end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: 'You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us: while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism: but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days.' "

So, from the LDS perspective, if there is a true Church on the earth today, it must either be the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or the Roman Catholic Church. I believe that we (Mormons) have far more in common with Catholics than we do with any of the Protestants.

Well, I already said I'm signing off for the night. This time I really mean it!