Aqulaung v Buttercup debate discussion! (paradise, salvation, hell, LDS)

[Aqualung]

How did you all view the debate? What were the strengths and weaknesses of each argument and of each debator?

[Buttercup]

Aqua...your information was wrong dear. That is a big downer right there I'm afraid. Means you're arguments are all for naught off the get go. Like I told FFH, if I had known the correct info, the debate would have ended after one page I think. LDS views are not much different. And that's good.

[Aqualung]

Wrong? Or simplified? Was it actually wrong, or did I just not want to go into what the spirit world was completely?

[Aqualung]

BTW: LDS views are totally different. You think you don't need baptism for salvation. I do. You think there is one heaven and one hell, and the believers go to heaven and the non-believers go to hell, right after death. That's way different. You believe paradise is heaven. That's way different.

[Buttercup]

You were wrong about spirit prison. Spirit prison is where non believers go. Spirit paradise is where someone goes if they've accepted Christ and repented of sins but weren't baptised while alive. That was the OP. And the only one I wanted to debate.

[Aqualung]

That's because I was using spirit prison and spirit world interchangeably, as whether it is "prison" or "paradise" is really in the eye of the beholder, and I didn't fell like going through a huge long spiel about the differences.

That wasn't the OP. The OP was whether or not baptism was a requirement for salvation. Since the spirit world was almost a non-issue, I didn't feel like describing it in detail, but instead decided to simplify and use the same terms as I had been using earlier.

Spirit paradise is not "where someone goes if they've accepted Christ and repented of sins but weren't baptised while alive" as you said. It's where good people go, whether they've accepted christ or not, and whether they've been baptised or not.

[Buttercup]

Oh brother Aqua, you are a stubborn girl. Go read my first post again. I wanted to know about 'spirit prison' and salvation regarding it. The debate went from there.

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

How did you all view the debate? What were the strengths and weaknesses of each argument and of each debator?

You want a critique?

Duh. Well, obviously, I think you started out with an advantage, Aqualung. You were right.

Seriously, I think that Buttercup has a good point. I think if you had made a distinction between the Spirit Prison and Paradise right up front, that both of you would have ended up being a lot less frustrated with each other. Since Buttercup could not have been expected to know much, if anything, about the LDS doctrine of the Spirit World (which, Buttercup, is comprised of both Paradise and Prison), I think it would have been a good idea for you to fully explain these two her before jumping in to debate the validity of our beliefs.

I also think that it's always a good idea, even in debates of this sort, to look for common ground. I think that Buttercup was able to find that common ground (in the end). Then you turned around and told her it was merely an illusion, and that we don't really have anything in common after all. It surprises me that, as a convert, you would have approached the debate in that way.

Buttercup, I did notice that Aqualung asked several questions that I didn't see you answering. I saw a lot of "Well, I believe..." coming from you, but not a lot of, "And here are the scriptures to support my beliefs." I'd give some examples, but I think it would just cause the debate to start up all over again. And I think both of you have had enough of one another for the time being.

I just hope everybody's still friends, because I like both of you (and Dawny) very much.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by Squirt

Buttercup, I did notice that Aqualung asked several questions that I didn't see you answering. I saw a lot of "Well, I believe..." coming from you, but not a lot of, "And here are the scriptures to support my beliefs."

I used the same example of scripture from the thief and Jesus on the cross over and over to support my point that if you die before baptism, you go to Paradise with Christ. I thought from that example, it was pretty obvious the man wasn't baptised yet went to be with the Lord. That was the point of the debate from my eyes anyway and what I wanted to know about LDS beliefs.