Have we won the Iraq war? (America, mission, service, Lord)

[stephenw]

Originally Posted by Starfish

IF Iraq remains free and democratic giving those people rights and privileges they would likely have never had otherwise, IF Iraq remains a strong ally to the US in the Middle East bringing added stability into a very volatile region, IF Iraq shows other similar countries that it can be done--that freedom and democracy are attainable and possible . . .

That's a lot of ifs.
Also you talk about giving democracy to the Iraqi people. Who gave them Saddam in the first place?

[PureX]

Originally Posted by PureX

Since there was no war, only an invasion and occupation, it's impossible for us to have "won" anything.

Originally Posted by Starfish

Michael Yon apparently disagrees with you. So do a lot of people.

Michael Yon is a fool. So are a lot of people.

[Mestemia]

Released: February 28, 2006

U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006

• Le Moyne College/Zogby Poll shows just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are needed”
• While 58% say mission is clear, 42% say U.S. role is hazy
• Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown
• Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11, most don’t blame Iraqi public for insurgent attacks
• Majority of troops oppose use of harsh prisoner interrogation
• Plurality of troops pleased with their armor and equipment
  

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

some interesting stats:

U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ
Spent & Approved War-Spending
- About $600 billion of US taxpayers' funds. In June 2008, President Bush signed a bill approving about 200 billion more for 2008, which will bring the cumulative total to close to $800 billion.

U.S. Monthly Spending in Iraq
- $12 billion in 2008

U.S. Spending per Second
- $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)

Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq
- $390,000 (Congressional Research Service)

Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq
- $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Missing
- $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces. (Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq
- $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported
- $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items
- $20 billion
Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion

Number of major U.S. bases in Iraq
- 75 (The Nation/New York Times)
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm

[UnityNow101]

Violence in Iraq is down at the present moment which is a wonderful thing for our military men and women and the Iraqi civilians. But we all know how the violence could have been completely avoided altogether...When will we ever learn to move away from our silly notions that war is the answer to all of our problems? We may learn, but by then it will probably be too late.

[MysticSang'ha]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Released: February 28, 2006

U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006

• Le Moyne College/Zogby Poll shows just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are needed”
• While 58% say mission is clear, 42% say U.S. role is hazy
• Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown
• Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11, most don’t blame Iraqi public for insurgent attacks
• Majority of troops oppose use of harsh prisoner interrogation
• Plurality of troops pleased with their armor and equipment
  

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

some interesting stats:

U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ
Spent & Approved War-Spending
- About $600 billion of US taxpayers' funds. In June 2008, President Bush signed a bill approving about 200 billion more for 2008, which will bring the cumulative total to close to $800 billion.

U.S. Monthly Spending in Iraq
- $12 billion in 2008

U.S. Spending per Second
- $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)

Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq
- $390,000 (Congressional Research Service)

Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq
- $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Missing
- $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces. (Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq
- $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported
- $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items
- $20 billion
Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion

Number of major U.S. bases in Iraq
- 75 (The Nation/New York Times)
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm

That's pretty much in line with what I've experienced (the soldiers' opinions) in my involvement with the troops. Thanks, mestemia.

[kai]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Michael Yon is a correspondant who has spent many months in Iraq, imbedded with the troops. He says:

http://michaelyon-online.com/

"The war continues to abate in Iraq. Violence is still present, but, of course, Iraq was a relatively violent place long before Coalition forces moved in. I would go so far as to say that barring any major and unexpected developments (like an Israeli air strike on Iran and the retaliations that would follow), a fair-minded person could say with reasonable certainty that the war has ended. A new and better nation is growing legs. What's left is messy politics that likely will be punctuated by low-level violence and the occasional spectacular attack. Yet, the will of the Iraqi people has changed, and the Iraqi military has dramatically improved, so those spectacular attacks are diminishing along with the regular violence. Now it's time to rebuild the country, and create a pluralistic, stable and peaceful Iraq. That will be long, hard work. But by my estimation, the Iraq War is over. We won. Which means the Iraqi people won."

it was never really a war it was more of a security peace keeping operation remember there was no army or police force , left so the coalition had to take the role on ,if it succeeds and i beleive it will, then you will always have people who are never happy.there are lots of people who dont want it to succeed for lots of different reasons.

and if we do succeed and the Iraqis can handle the security themselves not for a short time but for the long haul ,then dont start feeling good because the real war is going on in Afghanistan and that has to get bigger and tougher before that gets better.

[kai]

Originally Posted by stephenw

That's a lot of ifs.
Also you talk about giving democracy to the Iraqi people. Who gave them Saddam in the first place?

Saddam got there in a military coup he was vice president under Al Bakr back in the late sixties

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Starfish

I'm sure many said the same in 1945.

And they'd be right.

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by Starfish

I'm sure many said the same in 1945.

Oh, please. The Iraqi conflict isn't even remotely comparable to WW2.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Released: February 28, 2006

U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006

• Le Moyne College/Zogby Poll shows just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are needed”
• While 58% say mission is clear, 42% say U.S. role is hazy
• Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown
• Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11, most don’t blame Iraqi public for insurgent attacks
• Majority of troops oppose use of harsh prisoner interrogation
• Plurality of troops pleased with their armor and equipment
  

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

some interesting stats:

U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ
Spent & Approved War-Spending
- About $600 billion of US taxpayers' funds. In June 2008, President Bush signed a bill approving about 200 billion more for 2008, which will bring the cumulative total to close to $800 billion.

U.S. Monthly Spending in Iraq
- $12 billion in 2008

U.S. Spending per Second
- $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)

Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq
- $390,000 (Congressional Research Service)

Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq
- $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Missing
- $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces. (Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq
- $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported
- $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items
- $20 billion
Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion

Number of major U.S. bases in Iraq
- 75 (The Nation/New York Times)
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm

One could post similar numbers and stats for every war we've ever fought. War is expensive.