If you make over 75,000 a year, are you rich? (hell)

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by nutshell

Starfish, I believe the number of people who improve their situation is actually between 1 and 2%. I think someone posted the number and source earlier in this (now 14 page) thread.

I don't buy it. I read the post. The numbers may be true, but it need not be true for you. Too many have defied the odds. We need to hear more of the success stories, rather than the reasons to not try.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Others have done it. Usually, with immigrants, it's the parents who struggle with the language, not the kids.

That's what I was getting at. To a certain degree, parents can make up for bad teaching in school by spending time working with their kids, but new immigrant parents often can't provide that sort of support when there's a language barrier between them and the material their kids are learning. The kids end up losing out on part of their support through no fault of their own.

Originally Posted by Starfish

When there's no parent at home with the kids, then who does this? So many of the choices you make in your youth will affect generations. It affects the life you give your kids, and what they then pass on to their kids.

It takes diligence, sacrifice, and committment. We need to teach our kids this, with no excuses. No early sex, no drugs, no extravegances creating debt. The parents have GOT to set the example. (Sorry--this is one of my passions.)

Again, that's what I'm getting at. A child can't pick their parents. If a parent doesn't make those sorts of choices for their kids, doesn't instill proper values in them, and doesn't teach them all the things you mention, then the child will suffer, despite never having a say in these decisions that have had a major impact on the foundation on which the rest of their life will be built on.

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Starfish

I don't buy it. I read the post. The numbers may be true, but it need not be true for you. Too many have defied the odds. We need to hear more of the success stories, rather than the reasons to not try.

Well, I'll take continually demonstratable hard numbers over your gut feeling that you "don't buy it."

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

That's what I was getting at. To a certain degree, parents can make up for bad teaching in school by spending time working with their kids, but new immigrant parents often can't provide that sort of support when there's a language barrier between them and the material their kids are learning. The kids end up losing out on part of their support through no fault of their own.


Again, that's what I'm getting at. A child can't pick their parents. If a parent doesn't make those sorts of choices for their kids, doesn't instill proper values in them, and doesn't teach them all the things you mention, then the child will suffer, despite never having a say in these decisions that have had a major impact on the foundation on which the rest of their life will be built on.

You're right, and as I said several times, there are exceptions.
Parents have got to get their act together as much as possible. But some kids have made it inspite of their parents. I did my schooling and college with very little parental involvement--we were one of those families with an excuse.

[KasMage]

I don't think we should separate people into just three different groups. If you talk about taxes, you can't just call $75,000 rich and group them up with people who make millions.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by KasMage

I don't think we should separate people into just three different groups. If you talk about taxes, you can't just call $75,000 rich and group them up with people who make millions.

True, but there are degrees of "rich". Those who have many millions are very, very rich. It's like being good-looking. I've seen plenty of girls who were good-looking but nowhere in the same vicinity as someone like Angelina Jolie. That doesn't mean they're not good-looking, it just means some others take it to a higher degree.

[KasMage]

Point well made. That being said though, I don't really think of the $75,000 as rich. Obviously it's not poor, and it's above the average guy, but it's not exactly mansion income. That's not to say that everybody who makes $75,000 should be getting constant, direct government support, but let's not necessarily completely negate them from the equation. As stated in many other posts, it depends on the situation. If you're raising six kids and live in an expensive city, you might need a little help to get all of your kids health care. It seems to be a very subjective matter, but making less than $100,000 shouldn't remove you from the possibility of forms of support from the government. In the end, I think that may very well have been the context of the statement by Edwards.

[Reverend Rick]

Originally Posted by KasMage

If you're raising six kids and live in an expensive city, you might need a little help to get all of your kids health care.

So the government needs to supplement your income because YOU decide to live in an expensive city and have six kids? Basically what you are saying is everyone in this country should be dependant on the government if they choose to live beyond their means.


I would like to address this immigrant issue as well. How many folks do you see that cannot speak the language, raise children who do well in school, stay away from drugs and trouble while their parents save, invest and manage to start their own business?

I see these people who come here recognise the opportunities we all have. The difference is, they have more obstacles but succeed even more than native born folks.

[Reverend Rick]

Originally Posted by Mister_T

Not everyone has "easy access" to oppurtunity like you're trying to imply. There are a number of different circumstances that can affect the outcome of a person's success/access to oppurtunity.

"easy access"? Excuse me? Are you implying something has to be easy to make an effort for achievement?

That is the trouble with this country, we have to many safety nets. If it where true, "sink or swim", or "work or starve", people would magically find these "easy accesses".

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

"easy access"? Excuse me? Are you implying something has to be easy to make an effort for achievement?

That is the trouble with this country