If you make over 75,000 a year, are you rich? (hell) - Page 14

Starfish · #**131** 03-20-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_T

What Rick seems to be missing is that you'd have to work all three of those jobs just to break 30,000 a year (and I'm being generous with that number), which ain't squat.

Once you get yourself into this position, with debts and obligations, it's extremely hard to get out. But where were these people during their teens and 20's, when others were getting their educations? Couldn't they see then that Walmart and dishwashing wasn't going to cut it? Does the story of the grasshopper and the ant apply here?

Mister_T · #**132** 03-20-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfish

Once you get yourself into this position, with debts and obligations, it's extremely hard to get out. But where were these people during their teens and 20's, when others were getting their educations? Couldn't they see then that Walmart and dishwashing wasn't going to cut it? Does the story of the grasshopper and the ant apply here?

Who said anything about these people being in debt? There are lots of people below the poverty line that aren't in debt. I'm not familiar with the grasshopper and the ant story, but I am familiar with generalizations, which is what I'm seeing displayed here. Not everyone has "easy access" to oppurtunity like you're trying to imply. There are a number of different circumstances that can affect the outcome of a person's success/access to oppurtunity.

Starfish · #**133** 03-20-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_T

I'm not familiar with the grasshopper and the ant story, but I am familiar with generalizations, which is what I'm seeing here. Not everyone has "easy access" to oppurtunity like you're trying to imply. There are a number of different circumstances that can affect the outcome of a person's success/access to oppurtunity.

There are always exceptions. I believe the vast majority could work like crazy and get educated in fields that have opportunities, if they choose. It's just that many don't choose it, and end up in trouble later.

Some choose the hard road early on, and end up on the easy road later. Some do it in reverse.

Starfish · #**134** 03-20-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_T

I'm not familiar with the grasshopper and the ant story.

In brief--the ant worked hard all summer long to store up food for the winter. The grasshopper played all summer. Then when it got cold, the grasshopper went to the ant for food. The ant said no.

9-10ths_Penguin · #**135** 03-20-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfish

There are always exceptions. I believe the vast majority could work like crazy and get educated in fields that have opportunities, if they choose. It's just that many don't choose it, and end up in trouble later.

Some choose the hard road early on, and end up on the easy road later. Some do it in reverse.

I think that education is one area where people don't have a lot of choice, and the consequences of a bad educational foundation can have major impacts on everything else in a person's life afterward.

The cost of tuition aside (which is a huge issue by itself), a person builds the foundation for university or even for trade school in high school and elementary. In our society, a child or teenager has little to no right to mandate change (and often wouldn't yet have the skills and knowledge to base a proper choice on even if he or she did have that right) if his or her school doesn't cut the mustard.

Starfish · #**136** 03-20-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

I think that education is one area where people don't have a lot of choice, and the consequences of a bad educational foundation can have major impacts on everything else in a person's life afterward.

The cost of tuition aside (which is a huge issue by itself), a person builds the foundation for university or even for trade school in high school and elementary. In our society, a child or teenager has little to no right to mandate change (and often wouldn't yet have the skills and knowledge to base a proper choice on even if he or she did have that right) if his or her school doesn't cut the mustard.

There are ways. But it takes sacrifice and discipline. Many have risen out of places where the odds are against them and would be greatly offended if anyone shrugged it of as simple luck or handouts.

9-10ths_Penguin · #**137** 03-20-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfish

There are ways. But it takes sacrifice and discipline. Many have risen out of places where the odds are against them and would be greatly offended if anyone shrugged it of as simple luck or handouts.

But if you're never taught sacrifice and self-discipline in the first place, what are you supposed to do?

If you're a 15-year-old kid, your teachers treat the class as babysitting sessions instead of opportunities to help you learn, and your parents can't help (either because they're out working two jobs to put food on the table or perhaps because of other issues like language difficulties in the case of new immigrants), how exactly are you supposed to develop the skills and knowledge to get admitted to university, to say nothing of qualifying for the scholarships you'd need to actually be able to pay for it?

Starfish · #**138** 03-20-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

But if you're never taught sacrifice and self-discipline in the first place, what are you supposed to do?

If you're a 15-year-old kid, your teachers treat the class as babysitting sessions instead of opportunities to help you learn, and your parents can't help (either because they're out working two jobs to put food on the table or perhaps because of other issues like language difficulties in the case of new immigrants), how exactly are you supposed to develop the skills and knowledge to get admitted to university, to say nothing of qualifying for the scholarships you'd need to actually be able to pay for it?

Others have done it. Usually, with immigrants, it's the parents who struggle with the language, not the kids.
You can always come up with excuses. But there are ways, IF you're willing to do it.

If only we could get through to the kids when they're young. Prepare now!! It's much harder later!
When we raised our kids, it was a priority that I be a stay-at-home mom. We sacrificed to do it. So I was the one who prodded them on their homework, proof-read the papers, communicated with teachers. I helped research the college requirements and nagged, nagged, nagged.

When there's no parent at home with the kids, then who does this? So many of the choices you make in your youth will affect generations. It affects the life you give your kids, and what they then pass on to their kids.

It takes diligence, sacrifice, and committment. We need to teach our kids this, with no excuses. No early sex, no drugs, no extravegances creating debt. The parents have GOT to set the example. (Sorry--this is one of my passions.)

nutshell · #**139** 03-20-2008, 03:02 PM

Starfish, I believe the number of people who improve their situation is actually between 1 and 2%. I think someone posted the number and source earlier in this (now 14 page) thread.

Mister_T · #**140** 03-20-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfish

There are always exceptions. I believe the vast majority could work like crazy and get educated in fields that have opportunities, if they choose. It's just that many don't choose it, and end up in trouble later.

Some choose the hard road early on, and end up on the easy road later. Some do it in reverse.

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