Matthew Shepard, you will not be forgotten. (homosexuals, blood, legislation)

[doppelgänger]

Here are Bishop Spong's comments following the death of Matthew Shepard. I think this was the first I'd ever heard of John Shelby Spong.

http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/jsspong/shepard.html

[Shadow Wolf]

Critics of the bill say it would have a chilling effect on clergy who preach against homosexual behavior.
"We believe that this legislation will criminalize our freedom of speech and our ability to preach the gospel," said Bishop Harry Jackson of Hope Christian Church in Lanham, Maryland.

It makes me furious that people would want to deny a targeted group an extra level of protection just because it goes against there personal believes. They can go on believing being homosexual is wrong and immoral, but that should not be a reason to think they should not recieve protection against hate crimes.
It also makes me hate Bush even more for even thinking about vetoing this bill.

[Zephyr]

I agree with The Seeker and ML. I honestly don't give a damn what the motivation is for a crime (unless it's something like killing in self-defense). If somebody commits a crime, they should take the same penalty whether or not they hated the person or group they targeted or not.

[Dr. Nosophoros]

Jaymes, what are your true exact points? state them and I will debate them if I deem them worthy of debate.

From what I have seen in your post #22 in this thread I will assume these are your "points", I will give you my opinion and we can go from there, savvy?

You know what disgusts me? People taking one example of someone from a varied group of people and making it out as though every person from said group acts this way.

That's downright disgusting.

Show me where I said that.

There's miles of difference between someone beating up someone and someone beating up someone simply because they thought they were gay.
I've had things happen to me that wouldn't have happened otherwise simply because people thought I was gay. (But how do you know that, you might ask? My attackers calling me "lesbo" would probably be a big clue.)

Really? I thought getting beaten up was all the same because the end result was the same no matter race, religion or sexual preference , your feelings don't matter, what matters is what actually happened, I'd hope you were stronger than this, if you aren't then toughen yourself up, don't expect a red carpet to be rolled out for you just because you chose this or that deal with it and live with it. I don't ask for or expect special treatment so why the hell should you?

You seem to be missing the distinction between "beating someone up because they hate them" and "beating someone up because they're weak". To my knowledge, there's not a widespread hate of old people in society. If someone was beating up old people simply because they hate them, not because they were perceived as an easy target, I'd say they should be protected under hate crime laws as well. Take your pick.

I think I picked all of them and I still don't think you get my point, in my eyes you are equal, but you don't seem to like it, I despise all equally.

You seem to have a lot of mis-directed energy, I'd say you'd be better off expending it towards productive goals, make it work for you.

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know, I don't think hate crimes laws are a great idea. Why add extra punishment for something that already is a crime? Who is going to determine that the motivation from the crime is "hate"? Why single out "hate" as a "bad" motivation? Do we add others to that too? How does making something a "hate crime" help deter that action?

While I agree to this, it is a crime regardless of the target and motive, but alot of hatecrimes have intemidation in mind as a goal. I have no statistics to show, but seem people seem to use these as a balance to that intemidation, especially anti-discrimation laws. That might make for an interesting research though, just to see if hate crime laws do have an actual impact emotionally on those they are aimed at to protect.

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by Zephyr

If somebody commits a crime, they should take the same penalty whether or not they hated the person or group they targeted or not.

I agree too. It seems that hate crimes are dangerously close to 'thought crime'. On the other hand, the legal system examines motive in murder versus manslaughter, premeditation, and so on. Still, I don't see why someone who beats me up should get a lesser penalty than someone who beats up a 'more protected' person.

[CaptainXeroid]

*** MOD POST ***

While this thread is in a Political Debate Forum, the Forum Rules still apply.

While the moderators are reviewing this thread, I strongly advise everyone to keep future posts on the topic and off the personal commentary or moderation will occur and warnings may be issued.

[Shadow Wolf]

Really? I thought getting beaten up was all the same because the end result was the same no matter race, religion or sexual preference , your feelings don't matter, what matters is what actually happened, I'd hope you were stronger than this, if you aren't then toughen yourself up, don't expect a red carpet to be rolled out for you just because you chose this or that deal with it and live with it. I don't ask for or expect special treatment so why the hell should you?

They should be strong, and shouldn't expect special treatment, but the hard facts are is that certain minority groups, homosexuals and transexuals especially, are targeted with violence, intemidation, and fear. Alot of crimes against them go unreported due to the fear of being attacked from speaking up.

[MaddLlama]