I Support Amnesty (America, Zen)

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

I'm done playing this game with you bro. As you said, let's agree to disagree. Take your own advice.

What about your own advice???

You've stated a claim and now you can't back it up??? Isn't that what you accused me of having a "track record" for???

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

No, you asked how illegal illegal immigration is corporate welfare. I wasn't addressing amnesty in answering that.

Fair enough, I don't see where you covered the fact that if my assumption was correct it would more then cover whatever costs you speak of. Like I said before, do the math. You can't tax China in the same way...

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

China is the most serious economic threat we face without a doubt. The fact that China has pegged its currency at an artificially low level but floating to the dollar causes a huge trade disadvantage for us. They have lessened this practice recently.

Who's lessened it? It's still a huge problem today.

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Yes, even the illegal immigrants are having a hard time competing against China. I'm afraid it we are seeing Pareto's "Iron Law of Wages" become more of a grim reality with the fluid global movement of labor. We simply can't compete against the sheer numbers, so we have to come up with something that changes the rules. I hope it's not too late.

Yeah, but what you are trying to do is tackle the smaller monster (illegal immigrants). China is by far causing more jobs then illegal immigrants. Not many people that I bump into say "I remember when I was picking cabbage and an illegal immigrant took my job". It's more like "I remember when I was an engineer and the manufacturing plant moved to China." The numbers are astronomical.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by jonny

I've been listening to the political debate about this immigration plan, and find myself wanting to just give people who are in this country working legal citizenship.

What's wrong with me? It seems like everyone is hating on immigrants. These people came here for the same reason that my ancestors came from Europe - because they wanted a better life. It's not their fault that the US Government decided to close off its borders and make it impossible for people to immigrate here.

When your ancestors came over here from Europe, did they come illegally?

I have nothing against immigrants. My husband and I have sponsored two entire families (total strangers until we met them at the airport) who immigrated here in search for a better life. We devoted countless hours to helping them adjust to their new life, find jobs, enroll their kids in school. We even gave our immigrant family from Russia a full paid for cemetary plot when the woman's father died of Leukemia two or three years after they arrived. But... they came legally. To me, there's a world of difference.

[des]

Many of our ancestors came over at a time when there really weren't laws regulating who came in and why. Of course, these (mostly Europeans) came and totally changed the landscape of the North American continent-- far more than anybody could possibly change anything coming in today. You could argue good or bad, but it certainly was pretty bad for the hundreds of thousands of Native Americans who lived here. In a sense, those of us of European descent were the Native Americans illegals, since they had no respect for Native lands or cultures.

Europeans also took large parts of Mexico. I think this is why in NM, some of the people here are not inculturated as US citizens.

Some people say, this is the long past and so on-- we should forget it. I would agree IF this did not give us some kind of priviledged status, which it does.

My ancestors came here illegally. It was maybe in the 1700s on my dad's side.


--des

Originally Posted by Katzpur

When your ancestors came over here from Europe, did they come illegally?

I have nothing against immigrants. My husband and I have sponsored two entire families (total strangers until we met them at the airport) who immigrated here in search for a better life. We devoted countless hours to helping them adjust to their new life, find jobs, enroll their kids in school. We even gave our immigrant family from Russia a full paid for cemetary plot when the woman's father died of Leukemia two or three years after they arrived. But... they came legally. To me, there's a world of difference.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by des

Many of our ancestors came over at a time when there really weren't laws regulating who came in and why. Of course, these (mostly Europeans) came and totally changed the landscape of the North American continent-- far more than anybody could possibly change anything coming in today. You could argue good or bad, but it certainly was pretty bad for the hundreds of thousands of Native Americans who lived here. In a sense, those of us of European descent were the Native Americans illegals, since they had no respect for Native lands or cultures.

Europeans also took large parts of Mexico. I think this is why in NM, some of the people here are not inculturated as US citizens.

Some people say, this is the long past and so on-- we should forget it. I would agree IF this did not give us some kind of priviledged status, which it does.

My ancestors came here illegally. It was maybe in the 1700s on my dad's side.


--des

Methinks if one were to ask Native Americans, most would say that no one else here is here "legally." Those who have power/privilege get to decide what is "legal" and what is not.

Here's a question, and I honestly don't know the answer to it. How are the immigration quotas currently set? Every year there are more people who want to come into the U.S. than we legally allow. How do we decide who can come in and from where? And what is a fair way to decide that?

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by Victor

Who's lessened it? It's still a huge problem today.

China did in 2005.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8654171

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

China did in 2005.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8654171

You do realize that China has to do that ten or so times before we can even compete against it?