Anti-Mormon Papers Circulating in South Carolina (Jesus Christ, ritual, Latter-Day Saints, moral)

[gmelrod]

to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind

Ah they were Wiccan

hey are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

No wait they are followers of inteligent design

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions

Ah ha! They are talking to the World Court.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Ok seriously now I think it is clear that there is a reliance in a god, some kind of supreme creator, but there is nothing about this that makes it explicitly Christian. It seems that since referance to a God as Creator, Judge, and Protector was mentioned it would have been easy to put this in christian terms but the fact that the founding fathers did not means they did not want to be an explicitly christian nation. Only one that expressed belief in some form of benevolent deity.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

Can Episcopalian (sp?) be considered "evangelical"? Aren't they about as close to Roman Catholic that you can get without actually being Roman Catholic - or am I thinking of another denomination?

You are very near the truth we are certainly not evangelicals.

By we I mean the Anglican communion ( Episcopal)

Washington,when in England worshipped at the Unitarian old meeting house chapel in Tenterden in Kent Down the road from where I used to live.

[bible truth]

Originally Posted by gmelrod

BT do you think that all protestants will be suffiecently biased against the LDS to ruin Mitt Romney's chanches at getting the rupublican nomination or will Giuliani's past support of abortion and multiple marriages hurt him more. I think Mitt has the advantage myself. What do you think. (I am ignoring the old debate of is the US Christian because I think there is another thread about it already. If not it is a good topic for one.)

Hey gmelrod,

Thanks for the question. I have a 17 year old who will be able to vote in the next election. I teach him that God is not a Republican. I do not belong to the moral majority organization, but I think I'm on their mailing list. My son likes politics because one of his teachers is a political Christian activist who also writes in the local paper. We live in a very liberal part of the country (Pacific Northwest).

How should an evangelical protestant Christian vote? That's a great question that I have asked myself. I'm not really up on politics; therefore, I need your help. Giuliani is RC and somewhat liberal in social issues? How does that rest with the RC circles? Who's the leading moral majority candidate? McCain is Episcopalian, right? I believe in the absolute truth of Romans 13. I should study up on politics. The LDS church lines-up with the moral majority as being conservative Republicans, right? All I have to say right now is… the God in the Bible is neither Republican nor Democrat. Read Romans 13 in light of this Thread and your question. - BT

[GeneCosta]

And the fact remains, times change. Our country was founded on slave labor, too. Are we so quick to defend our founders where they made one of the biggest moral mistakes in human history? Blueprints can be remade.

If a Mormon wants to run for president, his religion shouldn't be questioned; his politics should. For this matter I don't see why conservative Protestants would be uneasy about electing a Mormon when some of our best leaders were Roman Catholic, unitarian, deist, and Quakers.

[bible truth]

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

And the fact remains, times change. Our country was founded on slave labor, too. Are we so quick to defend our founders where they made one of the biggest moral mistakes in human history?

If a Mormon wants to run for president, his religion shouldn't be questioned; his politics should.

Ah...redemptive history is God's story of saving wretched sinners. Some Christians believe that the Civil War was God's judgment against the evils of slavery in the United States. Lincoln converted to Christianity during the Civil War. One of the greatest American theologians, preacher, and scholar… Jonathan Edwards owned slaves. Edward’s son fought to abolish slavery. BTW… Edwards was credited for the Great Awakening revival in America. He was a staunch evangelical protestant Calvinist. Please consider reading his famous sermon “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” which can be found on the web. I don't believe this is a secular country as a majority. Therefore, a candidate's religious affiliation is still very significant, even though the candidate may not actually believe in God. This is just my fallible observation. I prefer to dabble in absolutes like the claims of Christianity as compared to politics. I need to get off of the subject of politics…- BT

[gmelrod]

Well I can only speak for myself. I do not find that religion should be the largest determining factor in the qualifications of a candidate. I think a person should have some form of positive loving religoin as it is a good moral guide. But I think it is more important that their policies will be good for the country.

I am a liberal RC (and a pretty lousy one, too much philosophy) but I have concerns about Giuliani.

He has not been involved with the federal government. In 200 he withdrew from a senate race due to prostate cancer, he was a federal proceutor with an impressive conviction record and a mayor who was effective (though some say draconion) in cleaning up the city. I am concerned about his flexibilty on social issues. He seems to be shifting towards a more conservative platform to better appeal to the republican base. McCain has been ruined by his ardent support of the war IMHO

Clinton is not well liked, seen as too abrasive and a b-face, plus she is pulled down by her hubby.

I personaly am an Obama man. I think that he posses a native inteligence that will enable him to make good decisions. He is fresh fdaced and so not corrupted by washington dc. I admit he does not have a great deal of experience (like giuliani) but we have survived 8 years of on the job training already and I think Obama will be able to pick it up faster than dubya. Btw Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ.

[jonny]

Originally Posted by bible truth

You posted the numbers within the apparent context of the United States and Canada. That's the problem with our dialogs between evangelicals and LDS members. There's always seem to be some hidden and concealed information behind the LDS scene. The Christian is your mission field according to your link.

I wish that were the problem between Evangelicals and Mormons. Anyone with half a brain cell could have figured out that the NAME OF THE ORGANIZATION presenting the information isn't the same as the country the information is referencing. There is no concealed information. I got the list off the website that was referenced earlier in this thread.

[bible truth]

Originally Posted by gmelrod

Well I can only speak for myself. I do not find that religion should be the largest determining factor in the qualifications of a candidate. I think a person should have some form of positive loving religoin as it is a good moral guide. But I think it is more important that their policies will be good for the country.

I am a liberal RC (and a pretty lousy one, too much philosophy) but I have concerns about Giuliani.

He has not been involved with the federal government. In 200 he withdrew from a senate race due to prostate cancer, he was a federal proceutor with an impressive conviction record and a mayor who was effective (though some say draconion) in cleaning up the city. I am concerned about his flexibilty on social issues. He seems to be shifting towards a more conservative platform to better appeal to the republican base. McCain has been ruined by his ardent support of the war IMHO

Clinton is not well liked, seen as too abrasive and a b-face, plus she is pulled down by her hubby.

I personaly am an Obama man. I think that he posses a native inteligence that will enable him to make good decisions. He is fresh fdaced and so not corrupted by washington dc. I admit he does not have a great deal of experience (like giuliani) but we have survived 8 years of on the job training already and I think Obama will be able to pick it up faster than dubya. Btw Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ.

I think everybody forgets that the basic claim of Christianity... that all Politicians are sinners inclined to sin. Therefore, redemption and transformation by God is necessary to have a wise and godly leader. A leader who has been reconciled to God through Christ, has the ability to seek God's wisdom and guidance.

Otherwise, you will see the truth of Christianity play out when unconverted leaders sin in front of the world. Romans 13 covers their shortcomings, because we only live a small moment in redemptive history. - BT

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

Can Episcopalian (sp?) be considered "evangelical"? Aren't they about as close to Roman Catholic that you can get without actually being Roman Catholic - or am I thinking of another denomination?

They are often described as "more Catholic than Catholic." My favorite phrase to describe Episcopalians: "Catholic Lite: All the money, one third of the guilt."

I attend an Episcopalian church so I'm allowed to crack a little fun. Though some have accused me of converting just for the jokes.

[gmelrod]

Originally Posted by bible truth

I think everybody forgets that the basic claim of Christianity... that all Politicians are sinners inclined to sin. Therefore, redemption and transformation by God is necessary to have a wise and godly leader. A leader who has been reconciled to God through Christ, has the ability to seek God's wisdom and guidance.

Otherwise, you will see the truth of Christianity play out when unconverted leaders sin in front of the world. Romans 13 covers their shortcomings, because we only live a small moment in redemptive history. - BT

But all of the current candidates profess belief in Christ. We are a long way from having an atheist get a major party nomination. We can debate on if the US is a christian nation but there is no doubt that the nation in made up mostly of christians. But even a candidate who is reconciled with God is prone to sin. Conversion does not remove one's capacity for sin. Thus we have to judge a person's qualifications.It seems better to pick the best person for the job who believes in god then just to pick the a person who believes in god and trust that god will let them make the right choices. Politicians have been godly in the past and yet errors were still made.