It's time for universal health care (choices, choice, faith, verse)

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by michel

Whilst I agree with you in priciple (both from a moral and from a "duty" POV), the danger with Universal health care is that same problem that hits all very large Public Sector Government run organisations ; "economies of scale"

We have found here, in the U.K that our national health service has become a "money drain" - there is never enough (money), and the more you put in, the lesser the return for it.

To be fair, there are other reasons why this is exaserbated - Longetivity has been greatly extended, and the greater number of cures discovered = more money spent (that would never have been spent in the past); yet, I am aware of the absurdities of how money is spent, simply because "The goverment will pay...they jolly well will have to do so".

The money that is spent on health care is our money, mostly from National insurance.. but capital expenditure is usually topped up from taxation.( also our money)

Even with our seemingly money drain, the total cost/spend per capita is far far less than the USA spend on health care per capita; as this is not spread any thing like evenly though their population, their system can be said to be neither fair, effective, nor cost effective.

In the Uk we also spend far less than the other major countries in Europe so our system can't be all bad.

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Ok, well how exactly is the government going to pay for establishing and effectively running a health care system for 300 million people? Canada only has 33 million, and they're having trouble keeping the system financially stable.
With a deficit in the billions, taxes already high to pay for the war, and a budget that barely ever passes, how in the world do you expect the government to find the money to provide health care for every single person in the country?

Personally, I would like to see less government involvement in just about everything. National health care would be a disaster, like just about everything else the government touches.

don't ask questions like that. You mess up the utopian idea with reality...

[Seyorni]

You're missing the essential point that the US government already spends more on health care than any European country. We already have the most expensive system in the world. Switching to any sort of single-payer system would be cheaper than what we currently have.

[Ody]

Only when Americans actually learn public efficency.

[jonny]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

The whole of Europe is of comparable size to the USA. they have managed it. State sized schemes admittedly but all workable schemes.

If you think you government is a disaster get rid of it, and elect more suitable people next time. It's in your hands not theirs.

The philosophies in the US and Europe are very different. The US isn't a socialist country. A lot of people see Universal Health Care as a step in that direction. After living in Europe for two years, I don't want my country to turn into anything like the nanny state that I saw in Germany.

[GeneCosta]

European countries aren't socialist. They're social democracies.

All this anti-government rhetoric is amusing. The government is run by US. Unlike the private sector, which sole priority is to make a profit, the government works in our interest.

Of course, when the private sector interferes with the government, then there's a reason to be worried.

[des]

I think that at some point we are going to be forced to go for some kind of single payer system or subsidized payer or something like that. It will be an economic necessity of the global market, sad to say, rather than any sort of moral concerns. We are already seeing this in some industries.

The other problem is going to be the baby boomer population. I think we need a martial plan on cures for some of the more debilitating diseases or our children are going to go totally broke supporting us!!

The statement that the US is already spending more is quite literally true. We also spend in most unbeneficial ways, for instance, relatively less money is going to preventive medicine. We also have shameful infant mortality.

BTW, the suggestion of medical savings accounts, while it has its merits-- as it would encourage shopping around, tends to favor the healthier and wealthier and younger. People with chronic illnesses or conditions will not be able to maintain their conditions with these accounts, unless they were subsidized in some significant way which I have never heard of (yet). BTW, as per shopping around, not sure that always applies to medicine, I opted for a more expensive medical insurance (thru employer) that is considered better with a hospital that is considered better. One medication I take is
not generic as it has a history of not working as a generic. So, this, imo, does provide some limitation to how much regular market forces work in medicine.




--des

[PureX]

My prediction is that the insurance lobby will push for the government to force everyone to buy health insurance, because that creates a monopoly for them, and that's the name of the game in the corporate world these days: bribing the government to write laws that create corporate monopolies. And then they'll get the government to pay for the insurance policies for the poor, because that will funnel massive amounts of tax dollars to the insurance companies, as well. And they'll certainly insist on all sorts of government backed protections so that the insurance companies never have to pay out so much that they lose their massive profits. Business in general will jump on this absurd bandwagon because it'll finally take the responsibility for people's health insurance off their hands, which should never have become their problem to begin with, and of course when this happens they will not replace the loss of these benefits with any other kind of compensation, so that it will in effect become a nation-wide wage decrease and a huge windfall for business, at the expense of their employees.

In the end this idiotic system will not work, and will cost us billions of dollars (all of which will end up in corporate coffers) and then the paid whores that we call our government will begin looking for some new ways of bamboozling american citizens for their corporate patrons. The republicans are already trying to float this absurd "solution" to the health care crisis. And when the corporate bribery machine gets behind it, there'll be no stopping it.