Is Abortion really an issue for Gay's and Lesbians? (homosexuals, choice)

[Reverend Rick]

This was my biggest problem with John Kerry. He said he was a Catholic. I have the utmost respect for Catholicism. Then he said he was pro-choice as well. He could have said he was raised Catholic and is pro choice and that would have flown with me, but that is not what he said.

In my opinion, if you are a good Catholic, you cannot be pro-choice as well.

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Victor

Makes perfect sense. If my religious convictions are correct regarding social matters, then they should surface for all to see. The problem is that we usually begin to fight back before any emperical data is available. For example, it's nothing new that my Church has never been too fond of fatherless/motherless homes. 20-30 years back the opposition thought our view regarding the family unit was crazy. Now in 2007, the emperical data showing how much damage fatherless/motherless homes has caused is undeniable. Has the opposition submitted to the results? They just re-interpreted them and it made little difference.

Just know that having emperical data to support secular arguments doesn't gurantee anything.

Oh, totally; I agree that emperical data alone doesn't necessarily guarantee anything. That's what makes this so tough and such debates on hot button issues reoccuring. Everyone is going to continue to fight for what is in their particular interest (direct or not) and the laws may tip back and forth until controversy wanes. Perhaps as people continue to argue for their position, what is "right" will become law and eventually accepted. Maybe this is why certain issues that were once highly controversial (like desegregation) are almost no-brainers now days (most people think segregation is wrong); people found that desegregation was the right thing to do (though this may be be a bad example, for acceptance was nudged along by forced desegregation). As abortion has been a more modern issue, as both sides continue to argue, perhaps one of the sides will eventually become the no-brainer. I hope I'm kind of clear, I'm up way past my bedtime.

[Reverend Rick]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

Oh, totally; I agree that emperical data alone doesn't necessarily guarantee anything. That's what makes this so tough and such debates on hot button issues reoccuring. Everyone is going to continue to fight for what is in their particular interest (direct or not) and the laws may tip back and forth until controversy wanes. Perhaps as people continue to argue for their position, what is "right" will become law and eventually accepted. Maybe this is why certain issues that were once highly controversial (like desegregation) are almost no-brainers now days (most people think segregation is wrong); people found that desegregation was the right thing to do (though this may be be a bad example, for acceptance was nudged along by forced desegregation). As abortion has been a more modern issue, as both sides continue to argue, perhaps one of the sides will eventually become the no-brainer. I hope I'm kind of clear, I'm up way past my bedtime.

Your making perfect sense to me.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

This was my biggest problem with John Kerry. He said he was a Catholic. I have the utmost respect for Catholicism. Then he said he was pro-choice as well. He could have said he was raised Catholic and is pro choice and that would have flown with me, but that is not what he said.

In my opinion, if you are a good Catholic, you cannot be pro-choice as well.

You can be a liberal and be in good standing with the Catholic Church. But you CANNOT deviate from Church doctrine and be in good standing. John Kerry clearly deviated from Church doctrine and that is his call, but as soon as he took such a stance; he call himself a catholic, but it has no merit.

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

anecdotal evidence. We both know I didn't mean catagorically. Wouldn't you agree that the incredibly vast majority of abortions are given to liberals?

No, I wouldn't agree that the vast majority of abortions are given to liberals, not seeing any sort of study or data breaking down the self-identified political views of those who have gotten abortions. I would only go as far as saying that most of those who support a woman's right to choose tend to be liberal, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this lines up neatly with those who have gotten abortions. Any such data on the self-identified political views of those who have gotten abortions would be interesting, however. I wonder if there has been such a study.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

Oh, totally; I agree that emperical data alone doesn't necessarily guarantee anything. That's what makes this so tough and such debates on hot button issues reoccuring. Everyone is going to continue to fight for what is in their particular interest (direct or not) and the laws may tip back and forth until controversy wanes. Perhaps as people continue to argue for their position, what is "right" will become law and eventually accepted. Maybe this is why certain issues that were once highly controversial (like desegregation) are almost no-brainers now days (most people think segregation is wrong); people found that desegregation was the right thing to do (though this may be be a bad example, for acceptance was nudged along by forced desegregation). As abortion has been a more modern issue, as both sides continue to argue, perhaps one of the sides will eventually become the no-brainer. I hope I'm kind of clear, I'm up way past my bedtime.

You have a good night.
BTW, you should see how long the Catholic Church fought against racism. It took hundreds of years before people even came to their senses.

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

No, I wouldn't agree that the vast majority of abortions are given to liberals, not seeing any sort of study or data breaking down the self-identified political views of those who have gotten abortions. I would only go as far as saying that most of those who support a woman's right to choose tend to be liberal, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this lines up neatly with those who have gotten abortions. Any such data on the self-identified political views of those who have gotten abortions would be interesting, however. I wonder if there has been such a study.

I doubt there has been a study but I would be interested to see it if it had as well.

Anyway, I would be completely shocked if it turned out that the large majority of abortions are not liberal.

You do understand that most conservatives believe abortion is murder right? I would have a tough time thinking many girls would do something they believe to be murder.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

what..... It's true isn't it?

Conservatives aren't the ones aborting their babies, it's liberals.


I wonder what Darwin would say about that....

Comp, just what are you trying to say here?

i suspect you are right, less conservatives will have abortions than liberals, but reading your comment about Darwin and implying survival of the fittest, are you trying to say that conservatives are a superior breed than liberals?