Is Abortion really an issue for Gay's and Lesbians? (homosexuals, choice)

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Victor

Well it's odd to me because it shows just how far the opposition will go to get what they want. If they can't beat us using the system (judicial), they'll keep us out of it all together. But this will probably get us off topic...

Well, I can't speak for everyone in the opposition, but I don't have any desire to keep you or anyone else out of the system. The only demand I have of anyone attempting to change the system is that they have good reason to change it, rather than just "this is what my religion calls for." And Victor, and this is me speaking as a pro-choicer remember, there are certainly legitimate arguments against abortion that are not steeped in religion; I'm pretty sure I've seen you argue them before in the past. However, argument steeped in religion or not, if I have disagreement with it or think such a change will be bad, I will speak out against it out of my feelings for what is right; I would hope and expect you to do the same for issues that matter to you, even when on the opposite side of an issue.

You see, I don't get upset that you are using the system to give women the right to choose as it relates to abortions; because that system is designed to allow it. What does upset me is when there is an outcry for me wanting to change it using the same system.

Again, pretty much what I said above applies to this, too. I have no problem with you desiring to change the system and working towards that change. I only expect you to have arguments based on more than just "this is what my religion says" (and Victor, you most often do, though I may disagree with them ). Also, if I am against the change you wish to make, I am going to speak out and work to prevent such change, just as I would expect you to do against me. I would hope in the end, whoever has the most legitimate and best arguments wins out. I hope I'm making sense.

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by Victor

Duck.........

what..... It's true isn't it?

Conservatives aren't the ones aborting their babies, it's liberals.


I wonder what Darwin would say about that....

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

Conservatives aren't the ones aborting their babies, it's liberals.

I know conservatives who have gotten abortions.

[Reverend Rick]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

I know conservatives who have gotten abortions.

This was going so well until just now. I'm sorry, they were not conservatives in my opinion.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

Well, I can't speak for everyone in the opposition, but I don't have any desire to keep you or anyone else out of the system. The only demand I have of anyone attempting to change the system is that they have good reason to change it, rather than just "this is what my religion calls for." And Victor, and this is me speaking as a pro-choicer remember, there are certainly legitimate arguments against abortion that are not steeped in religion; I'm pretty sure I've seen you argue them before in the past. However, argument steeped in religion or not, if I have disagreement with it or think such a change will be bad, I will speak out against it out of my feelings for what is right; I would hope and expect you to do the same for issues that matter to you, even when on the opposite side of an issue.

I respect this far more then you might think.

Originally Posted by standing_alone

Again, pretty much what I said above applies to this, too. I have no problem with you desiring to change the system and working towards that change. I only expect you to have arguments based on more than just "this is what my religion says" (and Victor, you most often do, though I may disagree with them ). Also, if I am against the change you wish to make, I am going to speak out and work to prevent such change, just as I would expect you to do against me. I would hope in the end, whoever has the most legitimate and best arguments wins out. I hope I'm making sense.

Makes perfect sense. If my religious convictions are correct regarding social matters, then they should surface for all to see. The problem is that we usually begin to fight back before any emperical data is available. For example, it's nothing new that my Church has never been too fond of fatherless/motherless homes. 20-30 years back the opposition thought our view regarding the family unit was crazy. Now in 2007, the emperical data showing how much damage fatherless/motherless homes has caused is undeniable. Has the opposition submitted to the results? They just re-interpreted them and it made little difference.

Just know that having emperical data to support secular arguments doesn't gurantee anything.

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Reverend Rick

This was going so well until just now. I'm sorry, they were not conservatives in my opinion.

Well, you can think whatever you want of them, but I'm just saying, these people consider themselves conservatives and I will respect their political identity and call them that which they consider themselves.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

what..... It's true isn't it?

Conservatives aren't the ones aborting their babies, it's liberals.


I wonder what Darwin would say about that....

I'd say the vast majority probably are liberal, but don't count out the conservatives.

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

I know conservatives who have gotten abortions.

anecdotal evidence. We both know I didn't mean catagorically. Wouldn't you agree that the incredibly vast majority of abortions are given to liberals?

[Victor]

Originally Posted by