Hmmm (America)

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by PureX

They are also called HUMAN BEINGS for a reason. We have already tolerated the illegal act, and even benifited from it for years. And as a result many of these folks have had children in this country who are now legal citizens. Are you proposing that we send their parents back across the border and leave them here as orphans? How does this help anyone? And don't you think we bear some responsibility for their being here when we've effectively allowed them to stay all these years?

This brings up another question. The United States is the only country in the world (I think) that affords anyone born on our soil automatic citizenship. This cannot be done in Great Britain, Germany, France, Mexico, Japan, Russia, etc etc etc. Maybe the US should catch up to the rest of the world and quit being so nice.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by klubbhead024

Made easier? With as many American born citizens living below the poverty line, without insurance, and many without heat, we should just keep herding more people we can't take care of into our country? Until EVERY willing American born citizen has a job or a home, we should close the borders completely!

I don't think we should close the doors completely. There are lots of people who want to come here who can offer us much. But I do agree that it's time to close the borders and set an immigration policy designed for our own advantage, and then strictly enforce it.

[klubbhead024]

Originally Posted by PureX

They are also called HUMAN BEINGS for a reason. We have already tolerated the illegal act, and even benifited from it for years. And as a result many of these folks have had children in this country who are now legal citizens. Are you proposing that we send their parents back across the border and leave them here as orphans? How does this help anyone? And don't you think we bear some responsibility for their being here when we've effectively allowed them to stay all these years?

I'm not quite sure that we have benefited from their being here. What good have they done for us? Taken our jobs, avoided paying taxes, send our money to a different country. But wait a second.... they spend a few dollars here adn there in America.
As for sending the parents back without the children, I am ok with that. It would send a message that it is not ok to come here illegally, or you can lose something great. Honestly, I am with the rest of the world.... send the kids back to.
Finally, yes I do believe that we are responsible for this all begining in the first place, but when is enough enough? There are more then 5 million illegal immigrants in this country and this is ok?!?! 5 million people who didn't this is was necessary to obey the laws of land they "love" so much. Think of how much more prosperus America would be if we kicked them all out!

[Booko]

Originally Posted by PureX

They are also called HUMAN BEINGS for a reason. We have already tolerated the illegal act, and even benifited from it for years. And as a result many of these folks have had children in this country who are now legal citizens. Are you proposing that we send their parents back across the border and leave them here as orphans? How does this help anyone? And don't you think we bear some responsibility for their being here when we've effectively allowed them to stay all these years?

You make some good points, but I gotta ask "Who's da 'we'?"

No one asked me if I wanted to let people come here illegally. And I didn't ask for any of the benefits either (whatever those may be).

I never wanted this. I want to let immigrants come here legally, so they can be accorded the same rights and benefits the rest of us have, with whatever responsibilities go along with it.

But none of the politicos seem interested in the approach of fixing our incompetent immigration system.

Instead, we get 2 lousy choices:

1. Just let everyone in and look the other way. No other country I know of would allow this, but for some reason, we're expected to put up with it. I dare any of you to just show up in Western Europe or Japan or New Zealand and see if you don't get your butt deported. Oh, and btw, since these people are illegal, they can be (and are) taken advantage of -- I consider allowing that to be morally wrong and it needs to be stopped.

2. Slam the border so shut that all the "brownies" can't come here. And yeah, it does come down to that, because we never talk or worry about looking for illegal immigrants from, oh, Latvia. And since our legal immigration system is so FUBAR, they won't be able to get in legally.


Sorry, but I'm just not very impressed by being presented by our fearless leaders and bimbo talk show hosts with this false dichotomy of two lousy, unjust and immoral choices.

[twirlybirdy]

i think its funny how they are hiring mexicans to build the border between the US and mexico, to keep them out. If i were them i would make like a secret escape back in that only they know about.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by klubbhead024

I'm not quite sure that we have benefited from their being here. What good have they done for us? Taken our jobs, avoided paying taxes, send our money to a different country. But wait a second.... they spend a few dollars here adn there in America.

Illegal immigrants do pay taxes. They pay sales taxes and property tax (through rents and sometimes directly). Often they pay income taxes as well.

That said, the net effect of illegal immigration is to depress wages for those of us who are here legally.

As for sending the parents back without the children, I am ok with that. It would send a message that it is not ok to come here illegally, or you can lose something great. Honestly, I am with the rest of the world.... send the kids back to.

I'm fine with considering preventing the "anchor baby" thing. Kids born here of parents who are here illigally are not citizens.

There are more then 5 million illegal immigrants in this country and this is ok?!?! 5 million people who didn't this is was necessary to obey the laws of land they "love" so much. Think of how much more prosperus America would be if we kicked them all out!

It's not practical to kick them all out, though there are things we could do to encourage people to go home. Some cities are passing ordinances to this effect. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

And in a lot of areas (like mine) it would be amazingly easy to present those who hire illegal immigrants with hefty fines. Believe me, if they started to find the landscapers and builders here who pick up guys at the Circle K, behaviour would change in a hurry, and a lot of these guys would go home.

If we really do need the labor, it will become evident soon enough. But I'm frankly tired of hearing how illegal immigrants take jobs Americans don't want, because I can introduce you to the people who want them -- just not while being abused by their employers and paid slave wages to boot.

I don't actually *know* that Americans don't want these jobs. I do know there are unscrupulous employers who don't want to pay anyone a just wage, though.

Whatever we do, PureX has an excellent point -- we are talking about human beings here. There should be consideration about human dignity in whatever we do. That's why I don't favor hounding the illigals directly, as our wonderful Georgian sherriff did a few months back. His boys chased people out into the woods, some leaving their infants behind, and who knows when and if they might hook up with their own children again. That is decidedly *not* the way to do it.

Some illegals are here because they plan to stay and build a life and be part of this country, but our immigration system is so retarded the temptation to come here illegally was too great.

Others are here just to work for a few years and make some bucks and then go home. (I know this, because this is what the guys tell me personally.) If their jobs go away -- so will they.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by twirlybirdy

i think its funny how they are hiring mexicans to build the border between the US and mexico, to keep them out. If i were them i would make like a secret escape back in that only they know about.

There are already tunnels under the border that drug and human smugglers use.

We need to get serious about this illegal immigration situation, because people are dying out there on account of human smugglers.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by comprehend

This brings up another question. The United States is the only country in the world (I think) that affords anyone born on our soil automatic citizenship. This cannot be done in Great Britain, Germany, France, Mexico, Japan, Russia, etc etc etc. Maybe the US should catch up to the rest of the world and quit being so nice.

I don't know that we need to remove that entirely. To those who are here as legal immigrants but who haven't yet gotten full citizenship, I'd have no problem if they have kids and the kids get full citizenship.