The Pledge of Allegiance (tradition, doctrine, atheist, pagan, Abraham)

[PetShopBoy88]

Originally Posted by YamiB.

Well it does have some government involvement as it was Congress that added the Under God part in the 50s.

Yes, that's true.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by SPLogan

"Under God" does not discriminate against any particular religion (except for maybe Atheism, but most Atheists do not even consider Atheism a religion).

Some Mahayana Buddhists might disagree with you on that.

Quite possibly some pagans might as well. That I'm not sure of, but I'm sure they'll pop in and answer for themselves anyway.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by PetShopBoy88

Sure, why not? Last time I looked, however, the Pledge of Allegiance was essentially just "tradition". It's not like it's an "official" document of the United States Government or something.

Yeah, but kids are "officially" forced to say it in schools.

That's a problem with some groups. Don't JWs have a problem with it, because they don't believe in pledging allegiance to anything but God? They will obey the gov't, but their allegiance is not there. May would know for sure.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by YamiB.

Well it does have some government involvement as it was Congress that added the Under God part in the 50s.

As a slap in the face against those nasty atheistic commie gov'ts.

Well, that's all kind of "old news" now, isn't it?

[PetShopBoy88]

Originally Posted by Booko

Yeah, but kids are "officially" forced to say it in schools.

I never was, and I've never met anyone who was.

That's a problem with some groups. Don't JWs have a problem with it, because they don't believe in pledging allegiance to anything but God?

Yes. And quakers do because they don't believe in making promises or pledges, and many other people do because it's just plain wrong.

[CaptainXeroid]

Yes, it's been discussed a few times.
No, I don't believe it violates the First Amendment because the establishment clause was intended to prevent the government from favoring one denomination over another. Its purpose was not to eliminate religious references from public life.
No, it should not be taken out, and most important....
It is not going to be taken out any time soon.

If Michael Newdow or some other atheist insists on pressing a court case to try and remove it, there would be enough of an oproar among Christian evangelicals to show up at the polls and vote for Republicans who will vote to approve conservative judges to replace the activist liberal judges.

I know...more than you asked, but since I'm on vacation and not at the computer too much, I probably won't be around for the follow up questions.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Booko

That's a problem with some groups. Don't JWs have a problem with it, because they don't believe in pledging allegiance to anything but God? They will obey the gov't, but their allegiance is not there. May would know for sure.

Jehovah's Witnesses will not say the pledge. They consider it idolatrous to pledge allegiance either to the flag or to the Republic. I agree with them about that, and I also think that nationalism and patriotism are strange and divisive ideas. All people are our brothers and sisters, even if some of them were born on the other side of an imaginary line; our homeland is not defined as the areas that pay taxes to the same people we do.

It's always risky to make any blanket statement about Quakers, but Quakers generally reject pledges, oaths and vows because they imply that we accept different standards and levels of honesty. Let your yea be yea, and your nay be nay.

What are we, anyway? A lot of erstwhile traitors who must bind ourselves by a loyalty oath?

Rather than restoring the pledge to its pre-1954 form, why not just drop it altogether?

[Booko]

Originally Posted by PetShopBoy88

I never was, and I've never met anyone who was.

Maybe they stopped being strict about it to avoid lawsuits.

You just met someone who was.

And if I didn't, I would be sent to the Principal's office and my parents called to take me home for disobedience.

That was the way things were at the time.