Healthcare Act Constitutional

[Shuddhasattva]

Originally Posted by Levite

Thank God.

Better sucky, drag-a** health care for all than no health care for many and woefully inadequate health care for many more.

Except for the part where people have to pay for it, ultimately leading to more widespread unemployment and lower living standards as the middle class is shoveled into serfhood.

[josh120775]

Sweet, so now the people that couldn't afford health care before, ... still can't afford health care.

Even better, if those who couldn't afford still can't afford it, and don't buy it, they get a tax penalty, which isn't all that enforceable (no jail time, no penalty for not paying, no interest).

And who is supposed to pay the deductibles and co-pays? The people who can't afford to pay for the insurance?

I don't really see the point of the "Affordable Care Act" unless you're going to truly cover everyone, and this doesn't. If it was such a wonderful program, why not dissolve medicare and medicaid, and put all those people under some plan purchased under the Act.

I predict in 5 years, this will be a debacle, and Obama or his twin brother Mitt will move us to single payer.

[Iti oj]

Transitionial plan? So what does this bill do for me and can i be on my dads insurance even though im not in school?

[Daemon Sophic]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

Except for the part where people have to pay for it, ultimately leading to more widespread unemployment and lower living standards as the middle class is shoveled into serfhood.

You already pay for it. Without coverage, those many millions will just (have and do just) wait till their medical conditions are critical, then they run to the emergency room and get transferred to the ICU where your and my tax dollars pick up the montrously large bill. Now they have a chance to see a family doctor about their medical issues days, months, or years earlier and have it treated at a penny on the $100 bill. Plus they can work more and increase the tax revenue of the country, keep unemployment down, stop sucking up sick-leave time, etc....etc.....

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound (at least) of cure. The overall economic effect will only get better when we truly accept universal coverage/single payer.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Tarheeler

The USSC found the individual mandate constitutional. I can't wait to read the opion and see how they worked that one out.

I'll just wait for the movie of the week.

(Maybe it can star William Shartner.)

[Levite]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

Except for the part where people have to pay for it, ultimately leading to more widespread unemployment and lower living standards as the middle class is shoveled into serfhood.

Nearly every civilized country in the world has national health care of some kind. Most of them have not suffered these effects as a result.

And I think I am more inclined, in searching for blame for unemployment and lower living standards, to look at endless corporate subsidies for already-bloated mega-conglomerates, unbounded monopolies in many industries and fields, the wink and the nod given to corporate tax evasion, endless tax loopholes for the super-rich at the expense of endlessly squeezing dribbles of money from the poor, constant corporate exporting of jobs to the Third World without consequences at home, underfunded and mismanaged public education systems, bloated military budgets for endless and pointless undeclared wars and pork-barrel projects, crushing educational debt, crushing home-loan debt, and, yes, massive and crushing debt due to either lack of health care or greedy health insurers evading payment of medical expenses to balloon their profit margin.

If we fix all these other factors in our society, and health care for all proves to be weakening our economy, I will gladly reconsider my position.

[Iti oj]

Any one?

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

Except for the part where people have to pay for it, ultimately leading to more widespread unemployment and lower living standards as the middle class is shoveled into serfhood.

There is no "middle class" anymore, it's just the poor, the rich and the upper 1%.

[Reverend Richard]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

Meh. This is all so disingenuous.

In theory, I'm a supporter of welfare medicine - at least within the context of a tax based society, which I disagree with - but that's another story. Many other nations have implemented welfare medicine, some more successfully than others. It works and can be an unqualified blessing to the poor - I know my family would have benefited from it greatly.

But I also know that's not why it's being done in America, and I fear it will lead to greater problems, or the compounding of existing problems. 1T war industry, 3T healthcare industry.

This is far from over, and Mr. Romney has already said that if he is elected he will work to dismantle the program. And, if I understood the way the high-court ruled, they went on the assumption that the insurance mandate is a tax. The way our (the U.S.) tax laws wok, a tax cannot be legally challenged until AFTER it has been collected. The other shoe will drop once the US government begins to collect the insurance premiums (i.e.the tax) for our now mandated insurance coverage. Then the fit will hit the shan.

ADDED COMMENT: By the way, I am all for Health Care Reform in the U.S., but what diappointed me was that neither side (Democrats nor Republicans) could come to some compromised legislation. So what we ended up with is primarily a Democratic version of Health Care Reform which will eventually be completely be dismantled by the Republicans, or will at best have the teeth stripped out of it. In the end both sides (and the American people) will lose.

[Revoltingest]

Originally Posted by Reverend Richard

ADDED COMMENT: By the way, I am all for Health Care Reform in the U.S., but what diappointed me was that neither side (Democrats nor Republicans) could come to some compromised legislation. So what we ended up with is primarily a Democratic version of Health Care Reform which will eventually be completely be dismantled by the Republicans, or will at best have the teeth stripped out of it. In the end both sides (and the American people) will lose.

I think dismantling unlikely. As people become dependent upon it, & it becomes fully
integrated with our economy, issues like constitutionality & efficacy become irrelevant.
No big gov program ever dies.