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  #301  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mball1297 View Post
The biggest difference between OWS and the Tea Party is the message. OWS is on the right track where the Tea Party isn't. However, so far no one has really disagreed with OWS's message. They've just tried to dismiss them through ignorance.



That sure is what some of the media wants people to believe. In reality, though, it's a movement for the whole country (aside from the ultrarich, of course).
when was the last time you compared the movements?
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  #302  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by stephenw View Post
Great post Matt.
The pauperization of working and middle classes for the benefit if a tiny elite has got to stop.
If it is not stopped I fear that politically, we are entering dictatorial waters.
Democracy is being rolled back in Europe at an alarming rate. Frightening.
That is a good point. Too bad though the OWS main focus is American economics and policy. Millions world-wide have fallen victim to structured violence at the hands of Western Capitalist, and many livelihoods, environments, communities, and especially peasant farmers have been exploited for some time now. It was when it became very obvious the system is also exploiting American workers that it became a movement.
If the movement was extended globally could potentially became a very powerful movement.
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  #303  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mball1297 View Post
Still making desperate attempts to disparage and dismiss the Occupy movement, huh?
And, strangely, trying to conceal her source by pretending she compiled the list herself.
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  #304  
Old 11-28-2011, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Shermana View Post
A little pepper spray in the face is a lot better than the bullets in the face many pro-Capitalism demonstrators have had to face in countries where many of the OWS want to emulate the government of.
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  #305  
Old 11-28-2011, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Rakhel View Post
this reminds me of all the Tea Party arguments.
If you agree with them, then you're right on. If you disagree with them, you have a problem and it's not the movement. Its you.

OWS is not more than a Tea Party for the democrats.
"OWS is not simply a group of like-minded people gathered together to make a point with a show of collective force, though it is that. The difference is that it has developed into an ongoing micro-society with a micro-government that directly exemplifies a principled alternative to the prevailing American order. The complaint that OWS has failed to produce a coherent list of demands seems to me to miss much of the point of the encampment in Zuccotti Park. The demand is a society more like the little one OWS protestors have mocked up in the park. The mode of governance is the message.And what is the message of the "General Assembly", the governing body of the original financial-district occupation? According its website:
New York City General Assemblies are an open, participatory and horizontally organized process through which we are building the capacity to constitute ourselves in public as autonomous collective forces within and against the constant crises of our times.
Got that? If this sounds a bit academic, that's because it is. Whether you're having trouble parsing this or not, this piece by Dan Berrett on the academic roots of OWS's governing ideology is incredibly helpful."

Occupy Wall Street: Leaderless, consensus-based participatory democracy and its discontents | The Economist
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  #306  
Old 11-28-2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Rakhel View Post
when was the last time you compared the movements?
What do you mean? Are you implying that something has changed with the Tea Party since it started?
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  #307  
Old 11-28-2011, 11:24 AM
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Those OWS people are still hanging around? I'm sure they'll change the world. It's only a matter of time. Any time now. Yep. Any time now.
  #308  
Old 11-28-2011, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
Those OWS people are still hanging around? I'm sure they'll change the world. It's only a matter of time. Any time now. Yep. Any time now.
The world is changing. OWS is a symptom, much like the takeover of the political process by bankers is a symptom. Social unrest and the ruling class closing ranks and consolidating their power are both standard fixtures of economic collapse.
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  #309  
Old 11-28-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Alceste View Post
The world is changing. OWS is a symptom, much like the takeover of the political process by bankers is a symptom. Social unrest and the ruling class closing ranks and consolidating their power are both standard fixtures of economic collapse.
Indeed, invariably there are cycles if you examine history. And although OWS may be a symptom, it in itself will accomplish nothing and fade. Assuming historical cycles hold, at some point, there has to be some type of collapse and restructuring, but, at least in the US, I think this is still quite a ways off. Life for the average person in the US just isn't that bad, especially compared to most societies throughout most of human history. The impetus just doesn't currently exist to reach the threshhold required for mass societal change.
  #310  
Old 11-28-2011, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
And although OWS may be a symptom, it in itself will accomplish nothing and fade.
Incorrect. It's not going to be a magical cure for all of our ills, but like the Tea Party it will have an effect on our society. It's already changed the discussion. Of course, if you're expecting a political movement to have some grand, sweeping effect in a matter of a couple months, then obviously you're going to be disappointed.

Quote:
Assuming historical cycles hold, at some point, there has to be some type of collapse and restructuring, but, at least in the US, I think this is still quite a ways off. Life for the average person in the US just isn't that bad, especially compared to most societies throughout most of human history. The impetus just doesn't currently exist to reach the threshhold required for mass societal change.
In other words, things will continue to get worse and worse until we hit rock bottom and end up like Egypt? It's entirely possible that that's true, but I try not to be that pessimistic.
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