Non-theist morality (ritual, morals, reject, homosexuality, blood)

[Storm]

Originally Posted by gnomon

A few points of clarity.

The Old Testament is rife with morality. Just, perhaps, not your morality.

Not modern morality, which was the distinction I was trying to make.

The Christian ethos is hardly an original foundation of modern ethics.

It's the environment in which they were shaped. It dominated the discussion for centuries, that leaves a deep and pervasive influence.

You can find many "barely" theists who do not accept homosexual behavior.

True, but the only justification they have for it is the Bible, really. Take that away, and they're left with "I think it's squicky."

These are just a few aside points.

And enjoyable they were.

As for the rest, thank you for your input.

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by Storm

Not modern morality, which was the distinction I was trying to make.


It's the environment in which they were shaped. It dominated the discussion for centuries, that leaves a deep and pervasive influence.


True, but the only justification they have for it is the Bible, really. Take that away, and they're left with "I think it's squicky."


And enjoyable they were.

As for the rest, thank you for your input.

Interesting thread.

Also, thanks for taking those few points as I meant them. I edited my post to hopefully make clear what I meant but it was apparently unnecessary. I shall slap myself.

[Storm]

Thank you, and you're welcome in turn.

[Papersock]

Alright, I'll give my opinions to your questions.

Originally Posted by Storm

Is it wrong to kill in defense of another?

Depends. Mostly no, especially if it’s the only defense.

Is it wrong to steal food for one's dependents, if there are no alternatives?

No, I guess not. I think the person should also be trying to get out of that situation, and other people should help. A person really shouldn’t have to make this decision.

Do we as a society have a moral obligation to provide for the poor?

You could call it a “moral obligation,” I suppose. I think it is a very good thing to do.

Is the death penalty just, or immoral?

I don’t like it.

Is promiscuity immoral? If so, where do you draw the line?

As long as it’s among consensual adults and they’re not spreading nasty diseases around, I don’t really care.

What about polyamory/polygamy vs. monogamy?

I have no problem with any of these things.

....prostitution?

It’s not a great or glamorous profession, but if someone wants to, it’s fine with me. If a person is a prostitute because they have no better options, then we should be doing something about that.

These are all questions that I use my spirituality to explore, and hopefully answer. What do you use?

My own best judgment.

[michel]

Originally Posted by giant space amoeba

Agreed. Morality has evolved with culture and society...

I bet way back when early humans roamed the Earth there were certain "rukes" to govern the tribe, also that each felt a resposibility toward their fellow being.

I wonder if this exist in primitive form amongst pack animals?

Sorry for the late reply;

I can come up with one example ; Central African tribes - right up to the late 1950s. The culture was such that it was against the rules to kill another member of the tribe, but quite in order to kill a guy from a neighboring village if meat was short.......

That is what I meant by tailoring of morality to accomodate "special needs".

[methylatedghosts]

Id first like to say I do not believe there is such a thing as "right" or "wrong", because those terms are subjective. Something is only "right" if you think it is. It isn't "right" intrinsically.

Originally Posted by Storm

Is it wrong to kill in defense of another?

Never

Is it wrong to steal food for one's dependents, if there are no alternatives?

of course not.

Do we as a society have a moral obligation to provide for the poor?

no.

Is the death penalty just, or immoral?

I disagree with it, but I make no judgements on its "rightness" or "wrongness"

Sexuality is a goldmine here:

Is promiscuity immoral? If so, where do you draw the line?

Nope. I draw no line.

What about polyamory/polygamy vs. monogamy?

That too.

....prostitution?

and that.

What I think is "wrong" is what we have done as a society. We have made rape, robbery, and murder possible. We have created the conditions in which we keep what we think is ours. We have claimed that there are good reasons why so many thousands of people die hungry every day, while bringing even more people than that into this world to begin a new life - and this we call LOVE? There are no good reasons. We have claimed that there are good reasons not to share our fortunes with others. There are no good reasons. We have claimed there are good reasons to hide our sexuality from others, that we have good reasons to put all sorts of taboos on anything to do with sex and repressing those thoughts. There are no good reasons. We have claimed that violence is sometimes a good answer to things. It isn't.

Give dignity to the poor. Feed the hungry. Provide opportunity to the unfortunate. Allow sexual freedom away from taboo. Settle arguments with love and understanding. This will go a long way to eliminate robbery, rape, violence, murder.

I find it absolutely ludicrous that society would much rather see a man dying without a whimper on the battlefield, than a woman making love with a whimper in the park.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Storm

Is it wrong to kill in defense of another?

No. Though if by defending another killing can be avoided, do that.

Originally Posted by Storm

Is it wrong to steal food for one's dependents, if there are no alternatives?

Rarely are there no alternatives. I personally would rather starve than steal, but I believe another who stole to keep themselves or their loved ones alive should be given absolution for their deeds and treated compassionately.

Originally Posted by Storm

Do we as a society have a moral obligation to provide for the poor?

Yes. In fact, given the abundance of resources now available to us, there should rightly be no such thing as "poor" @ all. But things are not right with the world as they should be, and division of wealth and goods is unequal...that can be changed, but only with great difficulty.

Originally Posted by Storm

Is the death penalty just, or immoral?

Just, for those who commit acts of treason and sedition against the human race.

Originally Posted by Storm

Sexuality is a goldmine here: Is promiscuity immoral? If so, where do you draw the line?

Your body, being the only thing you are guaranteed to own all throughout your life, is your own to do with as you please. However, promiscuity is a sign of poor character, and a lack of spiritual discipline. Amongst other things, it can also be dangerous to one's physical and mental health. But you are free to engage sexually whosoever you want so long as you're prepared to take responsibility for your actions and be adult about it.

Originally Posted by Storm

What about polyamory/polygamy vs. monogamy?

In Heaven, there is no formalized Marriage rite. As above, so it should be below. Marriage is a doomed institution, it just doesn't know it yet. A sort of perpetual (and conditional) state of Engagement is the ideal norm, which can be broken and remade as willed.

Originally Posted by Storm

....prostitution?

See the answer about promiscuity. A woman has the right to do with her body as she wishes. However, some choices are patently better and more spiritually potent than others.

Originally Posted by Storm

These are all questions that I use my spirituality to explore, and hopefully answer. What do you use?

Dolorosa.

[Jistyr]

I think it's also fair to ask whether or not the concept of Hell is ethical. If someone fully realizes its implication, then I can rest assured that they will understand how immoral it actually is.