Without a creator God, do we need morality? (morals, Deists)

[Random]

Originally Posted by Guitar's Cry

But that's still using "God," isn't it?

By taking an ideal, though, be it an Eden or a Utopia, we can work towards that ideal without a "God." The ideal becomes the placebo. But are we creating and recreating, or are we simply being?

You are right that we flatter ourselves to think we "create" everything, even (or perhaps especially) our own realities. We are born into this world with everything given, and we work with what we've got to effect change: but still, we can only reform and reshape what is already there nothing comes out of nothing.

Or does it? If one believed in GOD with allthe heart and mind, then nothing is impossible. Pehaps we have to believe this to have morality of any kind, since we must acknowlege a realm beyond and imperceptible to our mortal intellects. It would be foolish not to.

To answer, GC, we recreate by virtue of our beingness. The ancients probably understood this better than most do today: perfection, the ideal, the utopia in our souls, is not realized by the Do-er, the one who simply egoically enjoys the merry-go-round of free action, but rather in the moral man who knows how to live his life and express himself holistically in the continuity of existence bequethed to us.

I have a saying:

The Moral of the Story is that the Story is Moral

Meaning it is a human story, told by and about what we liberally refer to as GOD, and that nothing is really wrong with us so long as the fate or destiny ordained for us is made true and real in our lives.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Random

You are right that we flatter ourselves to think we "create" everything, even (or perhaps especially) our own realities. We are born into this world with everything given, and we work with what we've got to effect change: but still, we can only reform and reshape what is already there nothing comes out of nothing.

What is nothing if not everything?

Originally Posted by Random

Meaning it is a human story, told by and about what we liberally refer to as GOD, and that nothing is really wrong with us so long as the fate or destiny ordained for us is made true and real in our lives.

Or it is "my" story, told about what I liberally call my "being," and nothing is wrong with me. Period.

[Random]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

What is nothing if not everything?

Just so, yes.

Originally Posted by doppelganger

Or it is "my" story, told about what I liberally call my "being," and nothing is wrong with me. Period.

Right again. End the seperation between Self and Other and GOD's story becomes your own.

[Kungfuzed]

Originally Posted by Dante

In my opinion, which i admit is speculative, is that without God or any topical force that can dictate correctness, humanity is left alone to cope with understanding the universe around it. Since humanity is limited in knowledge and awareness, his concept of morality is an ideal and only exists conceptually and if that is truly the case, does that not imply relativism? Would not morality in an atheist imply a reaction to theism and the cultural saturation that theism has affected?

We don't have to have morality. We don' t have to have anything. We could kill and steal and rape all we want and the earth will keep on spinning. However, if we want to live in peace and have some level of happiness, we have to set rules and live by them. This is true weather God exists or not.

[harleydavidson]

to all ,,I've seen some fuzzey thinking in my life but never with such blown up adjectives to make it so flowerey! Do we need god to have morality ..no,because I can state moral rules which are pretty universal without god. Is all morality just universal mores and customs of society..no,,some rules are accepted by a large percentage of the great unwashed. What are we talkinf about? Morality is how man in society ought to act. Some actions are not moral i.e. eating soup. Some are moral usually those that have interaction twixt people. General rules,,do good and avoid evil..do unto others as you wld etc.,the greatest good fot the greatest number,what wld result if everyone did this,, etc, when you look to answer questions like these ,,look to the general not to the specific. Inky had a lot of it basically right,,the only thing is ,we can test them,the test is does society profit or lose if the rule is held or violated.....harley dav.