Without a creator God, do we need morality? (morals, Deists)

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Inky

Er...why would the existence of a god imply morality, or the lack of one imply no morality?

This conversation puts me in mind of a question I read a while back: say tomorrow, God hands down a new commandment: Thou shalt rape thrice daily. Would that commandment be moral?

I for one don't feel that morality is arbitrary in the way that it must be if "right" and "wrong" were only right and wrong because a god had deemed them to be. On the other hand, I think it's rational to think that some sort of code of behaviour for how we treat each oteher would shake out naturally (and by necessity) in any society.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by Dante

In my opinion, which i admit is speculative, is that without God or any topical force that can dictate correctness, humanity is left alone to cope with understanding the universe around it. Since humanity is limited in knowledge and awareness, his concept of morality is an ideal and only exists conceptually and if that is truly the case, does that not imply relativism? Would not morality in an atheist imply a reaction to theism and the cultural saturation that theism has affected?

I'm basically just going to answer the title of your thread because I need more explanation as to the meaning/ideas behind your post.

What makes you think any morals are from God?

I ask you.....if someone murdered a beloved family member, could that act ever be moral?

[Random]

Creator Morality is the issue as I see it, not a creator God. Creator morality results in people living their lives in imitation of something that has no existence but in their minds. And a life lived in imitation only is not a life lived fully and vibrantly, even if the thing imitated happens to exist (ontologically, I mean).

Creator Morality says we must remake and reform the Earth in the image of a paradise lost or a Heaven hoped for. Creator Morality says we are made perfect but Fallen and sullied, and thus that we must repent and seek redemption under the auspices of men who affirm their life of imitation through religious dogma.

Finally, Creator Morality says that the best way to predict the future is to create it. If you cannot see the disaster this belief results in, just stop for a moment, look the darkness of the world square on and be aware of what you are party to.

The question was "Without a Creator God, do we need morality?" The answer is in the question, and as is so often the case come in the form of another question: "Without a Creator Morality, do we need God?"

[Random]

We should get a BUMP smilie going on here on RF.

I Want A Reply to my Wonderful post Above, please.

Thank YOU...

[UnTheist]

I'm God.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Nihilo

I'm God.

So am I! Nice to meet you...

[Aasimar]

I choose to follow Random because Random has more frubals. As first worshiping member of the church of Random I hereby order that all heretical heathen devil Nihilo worshipers be converted or killed without quarter or mercy. So it is written.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Aasimar

I choose to follow Random because Random has more frubals. As first worshiping member of the church of Random I hereby order that all heretical heathen devil Nihilo worshipers be converted or killed without quarter or mercy. So it is written.

Bless you, my Son. Heed not the yeast of Nihilo worshippers, but instead build up treasures in Atheist Heaven...

[Guitar's Cry]

Originally Posted by Random

Creator Morality is the issue as I see it, not a creator God. Creator morality results in people living their lives in imitation of something that has no existence but in their minds. And a life lived in imitation only is not a life lived fully and vibrantly, even if the thing imitated happens to exist (ontologically, I mean).

Creator Morality says we must remake and reform the Earth in the image of a paradise lost or a Heaven hoped for. Creator Morality says we are made perfect but Fallen and sullied, and thus that we must repent and seek redemption under the auspices of men who affirm their life of imitation through religious dogma.

Finally, Creator Morality says that the best way to predict the future is to create it. If you cannot see the disaster this belief results in, just stop for a moment, look the darkness of the world square on and be aware of what you are party to.

The question was "Without a Creator God, do we need morality?" The answer is in the question, and as is so often the case come in the form of another question: "Without a Creator Morality, do we need God?"

A very well thought-out post, Random!

"Without a Creator Morality, do we need God?" No. We make ourselves the God by imagining that we can create. (Which we can and can't.) Using God as a placebo (or a tool--same thing in this case), we can pretend that we are working on the direction of a higher power, when really that higher power is just symbol. (Just?)