Do Atheists believe in free-will?

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj

Let's be curious about the universe, study it, find no divinity construct, and say that such things don't exist when in fact divinity has to exist simply because reality is existent.

no one is saying that...

[waitasec]

i think because divinity is based on faith and if for some reason we were to discover something that would be contrary to what faith holds on to, it presents a dilemma faith would have to answer to...
however if one were to explore without bias (the scientific method) and search out for the cold hard truth there is no dilemma...because a stance or a bias hasn't been presented to be challenged in the 1st place.
sum, if you have truth, good for you...but to object or have the opinion that exploration will uncover a truth that irreconcilable with faith is a form of doubt...

sort of like when you see teenagers who struggle with an insecurity you overcame, you have the knowledge that they will eventually get it...are you insecure in the fact that they are seeking it out for themselves?

[Orias]

Originally Posted by waitasec

i think because divinity is based on faith and if for some reason we were to discover something that would be contrary to what faith holds on to, it presents a dilemma faith would have to answer to...
however if one were to explore without bias (the scientific method) and search out for the cold hard truth there is no dilemma...because a stance or a bias hasn't been presented to be challenged in the 1st place.
sum, if you have truth, good for you...but to object or have the opinion that exploration will uncover truth is a form of insecurity...

sort of like when you see teenagers who struggle with an insecurity you overcame, you have the knowledge that they will eventually get it...are you insecure in the fact that they are seeking it out for themselves?

Well you see, all perception is faith based.

Otherwise we wouldn't have perception to observe "faith". Everyone is bias to an extent, even the scientific method puts itself into a "scientific" bias.

Of course though, many people are able to over come this, Albert Einstein being a perfect example

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by Orias

Well you see, all perception is faith based.

Otherwise we wouldn't have perception to observe "faith". Everyone is bias to an extent, even the scientific method puts itself into a "scientific" bias.

Of course though, many people are able to over come this, Albert Einstein being a perfect example

but of course darlink..
i'm more of the biased opinion that being open minded about things is far better than not being open minded...
and to bring this back to the subject of this thread...
"we have no choice but to have the free will" ~christopher hitchens

[Orias]

Originally Posted by waitasec

but of course darlink..
i'm more of the biased opinion that being open minded about things is far better than not being open minded...
and to bring this back to the subject of this thread...
"we have no choice but to have the free will" ~christopher hitchens

I completely agree, and that actually reminds me of a Latin proverb.

Time homine unius libri-Fear the man of one book.

Funny...everyone possess a certain bias that allows them to overcome other biases.

Nature seems to have a funny way of solving its own paradoxes.

Thats a good quote by the way, "we have no choice but to have the free will". If I myself were more direct with the "belief in free will" I would totally use that, but I myself have come to the conclusion that we can only desire free will, and not truly possess it

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by waitasec

"we have no choice but to have the free will" ~christopher hitchens

Funny guy.

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by Orias

we can only desire free will, and not truly possess it

i likey that.

[idav]

I can understand the idea of determinism but have hard time believing that my choices are being made for me. Like I had no choice to post this.?.

[jarofthoughts]

Originally Posted by idav

I can understand the idea of determinism but have hard time believing that my choices are being made for me. Like I had no choice to post this.?.

That's not what determinism means (at least not Causal Determinism, which is what most people think of when using the term).

It is still YOU making the choices, except that they are predetermined by your genes, the sum of your experiences and the sum of conscious and unconscious signals at your disposal at the time of making the decision.
This means that decision-making is a much more unconscious process than we usually have been led to believe and it also means that it is in THEORY possible to accurately predict each and every decision you every make in each and every situation.
In PRACTICE this is impossible, if for no other reason, then because of the sheer amount of data that would have to be taken into account.

But it is important to note that determinism does not suggest some kind of puppet-master pulling your strings. It is still you making the decisions albeit in a manner that is predetermined by the conditions mentioned above.

[ManTimeForgot]

Originally Posted by jarofthoughts

That's not what determinism means (at least not Causal Determinism, which is what most people think of when using the term).

It is still YOU making the choices, except that they are predetermined by your genes, the sum of your experiences and the sum of conscious and unconscious signals at your disposal at the time of making the decision.
This means that decision-making is a much more unconscious process than we usually have been led to believe and it also means that it is in THEORY possible to accurately predict each and every decision you every make in each and every situation.
In PRACTICE this is impossible, if for no other reason, then because of the sheer amount of data that would have to be taken into account.

But it is important to note that determinism does not suggest some kind of puppet-master pulling your strings. It is still you making the decisions albeit in a manner that is predetermined by the conditions mentioned above.

Presupposes the non-existence of a Laplace Daemon for consciousness. For any system which is rationally intelligible and some actor exists outside the system, then that system can be controlled.


I'm not going so far as to say that causal determinism mandates loss of free will. I am satisfied knowing that my actions generally satisfy the desires and intentions I have at the time of the event. However, it does bare mentioning that proclaiming your "will free" when your "will" is reduced to computational factors in an individualized and/or isolated existence looks rather droll and uninspired. I much prefer a quantum consciousness (or at least consciousness partially derived from quantum processes) where our intelligence is entangled with much of the world around us. No you still can't create a thought out of nothingness, but I'm not sure I want to be able to in any case.

MTF