Pagans in Court May Not Be Morally Credible (ritual, morals)

[Kcnorwood]

Taren

Pagans in Court May Not Be Morally Credible

Oct 2006

Florence Magistrate's Court

Florence, SC

Judge Eugene Cooper allowed the following:

What is your religion?

Do you believe in God?

Are you Wiccan?

Do you have morals?

Questions asked in a courtroom to a witness (John Doe as this time)
in a civil matter involving property dispute (no religion plays any
part in property ownership). When challenged lawyer, Gary Finklea
said it was to establish moral creditability making an implied
impression that Pagan/Wiccans are less moral than Christians and the
judge allowed it.


April 10, 2007

Florence Magistrate's Court

Florence, SC

Judge Langley allowed the following:

Is your wife a Wiccan?

What religion is your wife?

What religion are you?

What church do you go to?

Are you a Wiccan?

Do you go to her services with her?

Same lawyer, different case. Gary Finklea had been told plaintiff's
wife was a Pagan and even though she was not present in the courtroom
nor mentioned in the case he asked about her religion again citing
moral creditability and again the judge allowed the jury to hear
these negative implied impressions against Pagans. As if you are
married to a Witch you must not be very creditable.


When asked after court why he kept bringing up religion the lawyer
replied, "Because it hurt your case."


I am the wife. I am also a mother. And I am a HPS who has been
celebrating in Pagan circles for over 25 years. I have a beautiful
house, 7 acres, a small barn with horses, 3 kids (2 in college). On
the back of my land is our coven's circle.

From the outside looking in we are the "normal American Family". My
husband has a great job, been with the company for over 13 years, is
a Navy Veteran with several Good Sailor Awards. Our 3 kids are honor
students and never been in trouble. We are very blessed and make sure
to share what we have.

Yet according to our local judicial system we (Pagans and spouses)
may not be "morally creditable". I purposely did not go into the
courtroom for fear that my presentance would hurt my husband's civil
case in a matter involving property damage (nothing to do with
religion). We were also afraid to have other witnesses for fear they
too would be "religiously battered". In the end the jury did find in
my husband's favor but we don't believe that it was a fair
settlement.

And yes we feel that my civil rights were violated. I could not go
testify much needed information for fear of religious bias. And still
though I was not present nor mentioned in court papers my religion
was brought up in a negative matter.

Right now I don't think we (Pagans) have come very far from the
Burning Times. Just the method of fire has changed. We are still
getting burned. And it hurts. It hurts so much to know that my
husband (who does not share my spiritual beliefs) was guilty by
association.

I have been with this man for 16 years now and I love him more each
day. He is a great dad and has always supported me in everyway. He
was in the Navy for 10 years and awarded "Sailor of the Year" from
his command. At his company now he has received several promotions
and is doing very well. He built me a barn for my horses. He comes
home everyday from work and gives me a kiss. Yet he may not
be "morally credible" in a court of law because he is married to a
HPS/Witch.

I am so proud of my husband and awed by him. He went to that court
alone (he didn't have a lawyer and presented his own case) and
knowing that there was a potential for this. He truly believed that
in the end right would be right. He showed more moral character and
fortitude than any words spoken that day.

What's next? We don't know right now. There are several families
around us that we worry for-- if we go further will it hurt them? Or
others? What about our children? We are a FamTrad and only because of
necessity I have had to "come out of the closet". I didn't make the
choice. It was made by others wanting to hurt us.

I think that at the very least I would really like this local court
and lawyer to know that we are not alone. They need to know that
there are many others out there who are Wiccans and Pagans and do
have moral creditability. And that these are the actions that help to
start hate crimes> first make them (Pagans) less than us, that way we
can justify our actions against them.


I thought this was inmportant & wanted to share this with fellow Pagans.

[Mike182]

i'm so sorry, i don't know what to say... this whole thing is an insult to you, and every other Pagan.

[Kcnorwood]

My point is at what point is is that your religion tells others how moral you are?

What give's that judge the power to pass such a judgement?

[BFD_Zayl]

thats just horrid, I hope the judge does not keep his seat for much longer.

[Kcnorwood]

What really bothers me the most about this is the fact that some Pagan's Etc will tell you how sad it is that this happens but at the same time refuses to get involved & help take a stand. I never can understand that I guess why things like this will continue to happen because not enough people feel the need to get involved.

[BFD_Zayl]

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

What really bothers me the most about this is the fact that some Pagan's Etc will tell you how sad it is that this happens but at the same time refuses to get involved & help take a stand. I never can understand that I guess why things like this will continue to happen because not enough people feel the need to get involved.

if I could do something I would, but I do not think a 16 year old mostly solitary pagan with no funds could do much except make a statement that has already been made. now unless we issue a large protest gathering or issue a petition, there is little I can do to help.

[Mike182]

yeah, one needn't look far to find people who call themselves Christian and have questionable moral character. your religion has no bearing on how moral you are, i don't see how such a point can stand in a court of law when it's a case on property law!

[Isabella Lecour]

The whole issue bothers me. Moral creditablity...what a joke, being a member of a religion doesn't make one good or even a saint. But it does leave an impression on a person if they have a steriotype in mind. Lawyers...you do get what one pays for and still need to hope the jury is made up of decent folks.

I don't think which religion mattered here, it could have been any other issue, just as long as it could potentaly cause a negative reaction in the jury. If it was drag queen needing legal help, I'm sure that lawer would have brought that out too.

I think you can file an eithics complain with the local bar association against the lawer and judge. Or even write a letter to the editor, showing how discrimination in the judical system is still alive and well. I don't think those things will have the immedate results that you may be looking for. Or you could live as well as you can, do good and be youselves and stay out of the closet. Being yourself is the best impression you can make.