The difference between Pagan and Wiccan (rituals, moral, reject, Earth)

[michel]

From:- http://wicca.timerift.net/wiccans.html

Wiccans, Witches, and Pagans

Language is a powerful tool. The application of words is one of the clearest ways in which we can identify ourselves. When definitions become blurred, meanings and identity become unclear. When someone identifies himself as a Christian or a Jew the average person has a general idea what he means. If he identifies himself as a Catholic the average person knows he is Christian and probably some of the things that define a Catholic from other Christians. But what is a Wiccan, and how do they compare to Witches? There's a saying about if you ask 100 Wiccans, you'll get 100 different answers. Pluralism is good, but only to a point. If one cannot clearly define himself, then he cannot possibly expect others to understand.

Because this site is specific to Wicca, I generally use that term even when other terms my be equally appropriate. For instance, a practice that I refer to as Wiccan may or may not be applicable to Witches or non-Wiccan Pagans as well.

Please also keep in mind that while some people distinguish differences between groups, others do not. Quotes from other sources will often mention Witches and Witchcraft when speaking of Wicca.

Wicca
Like every religion, Wicca has a few core beliefs and a whole lot of trimming. For the moment, forget the tools and traditions and everything else, because these can vary from group to group and person to person. The core beliefs of Wicca are comprised of the following:

• A belief in deity. Generally this involves both a God and a Goddess, and often these two forms manifest in multiple incarnations i.e. a pantheon of gods and goddesses. An atheist cannot be a Wiccan, although he can be a Witch (see below).
• Belief in the Wiccan Rede.
• Belief in the Law of Return.
• An understanding of nature and a desire to connect with it.
• A belief in the existence of magic, although they may not practice it.

For more info, see the Essence of Wicca.

Witchcraft
Ten years ago the terms Wicca and Witchcraft were used interchangeably. That, however, is changing, mostly on the part of those who wish to be only Witches, but not Wiccans. Some of them simply find Wicca too cerebral - gods, shods, show me some magic! But many others have become embarrassed by the Fluffy Bunnies they associate with Wicca. One Witch explained to me that the only difference between her and a Wiccan was that she did not believe in the Wiccan Rede - namely, she believed that there shouldn't be a rule against self-defense, even if she harmed her attacker in the process. (read up on the Wiccan Rede and see why this argument isn't actually applicable.)

The essential element of Witchcraft is the belief and practice of magic. Witches may or many not be religious. There can even be such a thing as a Christian Witch - one who believes in a single omnipotent God but who can still draw energy from the earth (which he may believe is an extension of God) and does not believe that energy is evil. And yes, there are Satanic Witches as well, and they have as much right to the word as the next person.

A subset of Witches is the Hereditary Witch. Theoretically, this practitioner of magic has had his knowledge passed down to him through many generations of his family. I have serious doubts that such people actually exist. If they do, they certainly aren't anywhere near as numerous as they claim. Ten years ago these people were all claiming to be Hereditary Wiccans, secretly keeping the old pagan religions alive through centuries of persecution. Since the myth of the Burning Times is no longer accepted as credible, the pagan overtones have been muted and the focus has shifted toward magical practice.

There is also the Traditional Witch. This is not to be confused with Traditional Wicca or British Traditional, both of which refer to a number of Wiccan traditions such has the Gardnerians and the Alexandrians. The Traditional Witch is similar to the Hereditary Witch, except they do not claim to have had the knowledge passed down through their families. They do not believe one is born into Witchcraft but instead is something to be learned over years. It's generally claimed to be initiatory - you can't learn it from a book. They reject many of the High Magic elements of Wicca. However, they do claim to be practicing something passed down for hundreds or thousands of years. Some of them get very uppity when a Wiccan calls himself a Witch - as if the Traditionals have some sort of copyright on the word.

The problem with the very term "Witch" is it perpetuates the "more persecuted than thou" syndrome. They take a term which has very negative connotations, then get offended when other people do not agree with their new definition. The counter-argument is that "witch" was not always a derogatory term, but I've yet to see any actual evidence of that claim. Regardless, it's an incendiary term. It's like wearing a swastika and insisting to outraged viewers that you're wearing an ancient Aryan religious symbol as opposed to a Nazi emblem. Oh, and then blaming the viewers for not being open-minded.

M. Macha Nightmare, a member of Starhawk's Reclaiming Tradition, says:

by calling ourselves Witches, we honor our oppressed foremothers who survived centuries of inequities...we in Reclaiming call ourselves Witches for the very reason that others do not. It's an in-your-face word. We, as feminists and people who honor our own divinity as well as our interdependence with the rest of Gaia, the Mother, reclaim the term Witch.1

I don't know that being "in-you-face" is the best approach. It tends to be confused with "look-at-me-I'm-being-different". Regardless, these statements are largely based on erroneous history.

[michel]

Pt 2.

Paganism
Pagans are a much more broadly defined set of people, generally defined as followers of a nature-revering religion. All Wiccans are Pagans, but there are many other types of Pagans as well. Unfortunately, this is another term that we have redefined for our own uses. The common definition of a pagan is a worshipper of a non-Judeo-Christian religion. That would include such people as Buddhists and Hindus, who generally won't have a clue what you're talking about when you speak of Pagan religions in the sense that we use it.

More importantly, however, it's a definition based on a negative, on what I am not. Religion should be defined by what you are and what you believe, not by what you are not and what you don't believe: something more Wiccans need to understand.

Some people prefer the term Neo-pagan, implying the very truthful assertion that we are following modern religions based on older religions, as opposed to following the original religions.

On this site, when I speak of "Pagans" I mean modern practitioners. Without the capitalization, I use "pagan" to refer to ancient peoples.

Ceremonial Magicians
Ceremonial magicians practice high magic - alchemy, numerology, astrology, etc. The magic they practice are highly complex and lengthy workings. In earlier centuries they enjoyed high positions in royal courts. It was a magical practice, but not a religion. Ceremonial magicians were Christians. Angels remain important figures within ceremonial magic.

Ceremonial magicians perhaps best fit the stereotype of "occultists." They include the O.T.O., Hermetics, Thelemites, and the Golden Dawn. Possibly the most famous modern ceremonial magician was Aleister Crowley, whom Gerald Gardner had at least met, but there were a host of others. Much of the trappings of ceremonial magic can also be found in the rituals of the Masons, of which Gardner was one. Many of these same trappings found their way into Wicca, although their meanings have frequently been changed.

Some followers of Thelema consider it a religion, others see it as a philosophy. Regardless, the origins of their beliefs are tremendously different from that of Pagans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelema (a short extract)

Doctrines of Thelema

The central doctrine of this system is that knowing and doing one's True Will is the ultimate purpose and destiny of every being. This is summed up in the following phrases from Liber Legis:

• "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" (AL I:40)
• "Love is the law, love under will" (AL I:57)
• "The word of the Law is Thelema" (AL I:39)
• "There is no Law beyond Do what thou wilt" (AL III:60)

The True Will is a magical idea that could be described in its dynamic aspect as the singular path of possible action that encounters no resistance in going because it is supported by the inertia of the whole Universe; two True Wills can never contradict each other because each one has its own absolutely unique career in its passage through Infinite Space. Hence, to follow one's True Will means to respect all True Wills, described as "Love is the law, love under will". The apparent pacifism of this doctrine is complicated, however, by the fact that the vast majority of beings do not know their True Will. Those who do are the Perfect, who are beyond good and evil, i.e., all conventional moral codes and standards.

Thelema stresses personal liberty (balanced by responsibility and discipline), the inherent perfection of every person, regardless of gender ("Every man and every woman is a star" AL I:3), and the battle against superstition and tyranny.

Living Thelema usually, but not necessarily, is intertwined with the practice of magick, spelled thus to denote the concepts and techniques explored and developed by Crowley.

[Evenstar]

Wow! This is alot to take in.

I used to be a in your face witch... but now im i happy part of the Fluffy bunny group.... I am in the Pagan clan.

Think I may need to re-read it all...... Thank you michel.

[Hal_Jordan]

New here, but I am browsing the forums and this one caught my eye.
You know, Thelema sounded like my Pagan path until I learned (misunderstood?) a few things about Crowely.
That AL is subjective and every student gets something different from it;
That there is still a strong belief in magic, yet the word magic is couched in scientific terminology (to give an air of respectability?);
Egotism and elitism seems to be the defining characteristic of Thelemites; (reflects on the followers not the belief) and
There is an evasiveness that seems to convey a sense of self discovery, but in practice, it seems like it is really confusion.

Any students of Thelema out there? I am not trying to start a fight, but I'd LOVE to have these objections answered, so I can look more into Themela.

Hal_Jordan

[Feathers in Hair]

Yay!

Thanks for posting this, Michel! It really helped me to understand a few things I was struggling with.

[Freedomelf]

I never thought of myself as a Wiccan, but I have to admit I do have the same general philosophy. The term pagan doesn't really fit, because as you say, I am "for" something rather than simply "against" something else (particularly when Calyr Elves are not "against" any religion at all!)

The term Neo-Pagan doesn't fit me either because my religion is not based upon some older more established religion....at least not one that has been heard of in this realm.

So.....am I a Calyr Elf Wiccan? I'm going to have to think about that one.....thanks for the food for thought!

[Freedomelf]

And by the way....I LOVE this tag line:

Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Freedomelf

I never thought of myself as a Wiccan, but I have to admit I do have the same general philosophy. The term pagan doesn't really fit, because as you say, I am "for" something rather than simply "against" something else (particularly when Calyr Elves are not "against" any religion at all!)

The term Neo-Pagan doesn't fit me either because my religion is not based upon some older more established religion....at least not one that has been heard of in this realm.

So.....am I a Calyr Elf Wiccan? I'm going to have to think about that one.....thanks for the food for thought!

When you first came here, I looked at this site http://www.calyr.org/ , because I had never heard of Calyr Elfs until you joined.

Others may be interested; have you got any favourite sites of your own ?

[Freedomelf]

Thanks, michel. Although it's not very pretty graphically, I do like the site www.altreligion.about.com because of the good, non-biased religious news content. It seems to discuss various religions pretty even-handedly, and has editors of several different faiths.

The calyr.org site also has a sister-site that tells the secular history of the Calyr elves, called faerland.com, but to tell you the truth, I don't go there a whole lot. I know all the people involved with the site and they are very good friends, I just prefer the religious aspects and following my own path, aside from the secular mythology. It's not that I don't enjoy it; it's just that I have a belief system, which suits me, and I don't really care about the historical details or whether they are fact or myth. The Calyr believe that goodness and kindness to God's children, both human and non-human, rather than certainty, is the way to heaven. That's my path. I have to admit, a person who was kind to my kids would get a lot more consideration from me, if I were God, than one who had faith that I even existed, lol!

As far as non-religious sites go, I have to admit, I'm addicted to pogo.com, lol! I usually spend a half hour or so every evening playing Word Whomp.

One other religious site that I like is http://www.sssrweb.org/ which is devoted to the scientific study of religion. They are pretty fair-minded as well.

Thanks for asking.

[MaddLlama]

I love that site! It's really full of great information, I wish more people would read her stuff.