Use of Animal parts (ritual, beliefs, recall, spiritual, faith)

[painted wolf]

Animals play a deeply important role in native spirituality. Many natives (myself included) have parts from animals that are close to them for various reasons in ceremony and personal spirtuality. In todays world where many species face extinction what impact should this have on that sprituality?

now I know some of you (kreeden) were eager to discuss this issue so have fun.

wa:do

[huajiro]

Hmmm, maybe you can keep the live animal and help nurse them out of extinction and maintain that spirituality in a live animal.

[kreeden]

Actually Painted Wolf , the animal parts are just a part of the bigger picture as I see it .

I know that some First Nation People have given their lives for their beliefs . Can't recall the guys name who hung hisself after being arrested a few years ago for having eagle feathers " illegally ", but since that time , the U.S. government has set up the National Eagle Repository .

http://www.r6.fws.gov/law/le65.html

So , there are logical ways to deal with animal parts of rare or endangered species . Don't see why this couldn't work for other species as well , if there is a need .

Sorry if I may have put a quick end to the topic . But as I say , this is only one part of the issue .

Ok , I just read that the waiting list out numbers the supply by 5 to 1 . So perhaps this doesn't answer the whole issue , but it is a compromise .

[painted wolf]

I have to say I find the idea of a government waiting list on something sacred like an Eagle feather to be a bit troubling. The idea that the government exersizes that kind of control over our spirituality is for obvious reasons a very disturbing notion.

wa:do

[kreeden]

Understandable Painted Wolf , but someone has to insure that there are Eagles left for the next generations . More then just the feathers are sacred after all , and to more then one People . { in different degrees ** .

It isn't a perfect solution , I agree . But it should insure that there are enough feathers for Spiritual preposes . Granted , it does take away from the Spirtual quest for the feathers . But the world has changed . For us all .

You know ? I have no idea how one would go about getting an Eagle feather here in Canada . I will try to find out .

[seraphimfire]

Kreeden;
I was"given" the feathers I have! I just hung out under a nesting pair for awile! And also when there is a conflict of sorts in the air above, some will fall!
As many believe, the life of the animal is in the parts. I do not see why that when one dies of natural causes the parts should be given to those who hold them most "dear" (as the english would say.) As for this government in the states or the federal places having any say as to what the nations can do ,I feel that is wrong!
Peace

[painted wolf]

Thank you seaphimfire, many recieve 'gifts' of feathers, this is how I have gotten all of mine. The way the law works however, I face jail for having my feathers. I do not have a 'card' and thus have no 'leagal' right to my religion and the posession of certain feathers. I find it ironic that I face jail for my faith in the land of the free.

wa:do

[kreeden]

Seaphimfire and Painted Wolf , I agree with what you are saying . I only point out that there is a need to protect those who can't protect theirselves , in this case the Eagle . How far that need goes , is debatable .

Painted Wolf , I know what you are saying , and in truth , I have little use for the laws myself , I just see a need for them , that is all . Like Seaphimfire , and you , I have Eagle feathers myself , illegally I might add . And like Seaphimfire , the feathers were given to me by the bird it's self . No harm done . I have even gone farther and have send a feather to my friend in Seattle . Shipping animal parts across an international border .

As long as there is no harm done , I couldn't care less about some law . However , as I said , the world has changed . When was the last time you saw a Buffalo roaming free and wild ? They are treated much the same as cattle now . The Perequine Falcon all but disappeared . Sun Bear .. the list goes on .

I just search for a balance . Nature belongs to us all , if it " belongs " to any . I have held baby Eagle chicks in my hands , feed them from the same hand , and have watched them die all the same . I have heard the thunder of the Eagle's wings , and felt the wind from the same . Does that give me any more right to say what is right for them ? No . But someone must speak out for them . You say that the power of the animal's life still lays in the parts of it's body . I agree . But how much more of that power lays in the living animal it's self ?

I think that there are enough " feathers " if we don't waste them . If our pride and greed don't get the best of us . Yes , pride and greed are the two main dangers I think .

Have either of you heard what they plan to do with the Sun Bear ? They are talking of " farming " them for their gall . Factory farms . The Bear will be raised in small cages just long enough to " harvest " their galls . Some are even talking of " milking " them while still alive . Is that an answer for Eagle too ? Not for me it isn't . And I hope that it isn't for most .

So , what is the answer ?

[kreeden]

I apologize if that last post came across as a bit strong . This is an important subject and it started off as comparing the use of chicken feathers in nic-nacs as to the use of scared items used in Ritual . Two very different things , I would say .

I do believe that there has to be a balance somewhere though . If not , we all loss , Eagle perhaps most of all .