Questions (Creator, tradition, beliefs, elders, creation)

[Ark]

At the risk of starting a "hot topic" here. I just have to be religiously correct here and ask a few questions. I am not trying to be insulting, but this is supposed to be about religious education...right?

Question 1: Most indigenous people prefer to be called American Indians. Why are they referred to as Native Americans here?

Question 2: Why are multiple faiths referred to as "religions" here?

There is only one Creator, so how can there be more than one religion? Every culture may have its own traditions/ways of expressing unity with the Creator so their faiths may differ in ways, but it is still (supposedly) a faith. None are the total encompassment of religion for which others are diminished. At least not the God/Creator based faiths.

Many faiths and many cultural nicknames for the Creator...but religion is religion.

Question 3: Why is "Mythology" in the same sentence as "Indigenous religions"? Is that some underlying insult? Are Creator based faiths considered inferior or heathen in relation to biblical faith? Is there some new/improved Creator and is he now a book? OK...that is three questions in one. I am sure your responses will be interesting.

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Ark

At the risk of starting a "hot topic" here. I just have to be religiously correct here and ask a few questions. I am not trying to be insulting, but this is supposed to be about religious education...right?

Question 1: Most indigenous people prefer to be called American Indians. Why are they referred to as Native Americans here?

I'm stopping at question one because I believe your claim is wrong. Most indigenous people do not prefer to be called Americn Indians or Native Americans. Why? Because the term "America" refers to this land post discovery and they were here before that. I believe the current preferred term is "Native Nations."

[michel]

Originally Posted by Ark

At the risk of starting a "hot topic" here. I just have to be religiously correct here and ask a few questions. I am not trying to be insulting, but this is supposed to be about religious education...right?

Question 1: Most indigenous people prefer to be called American Indians. Why are they referred to as Native Americans here?

Question 2: Why are multiple faiths referred to as "religions" here?

There is only one Creator, so how can there be more than one religion? Every culture may have its own traditions/ways of expressing unity with the Creator so their faiths may differ in ways, but it is still (supposedly) a faith. None are the total encompassment of religion for which others are diminished. At least not the God/Creator based faiths.

Many faiths and many cultural nicknames for the Creator...but religion is religion.

Question 3: Why is "Mythology" in the same sentence as "Indigenous religions"? Is that some underlying insult? Are Creator based faiths considered inferior or heathen in relation to biblical faith? Is there some new/improved Creator and is he now a book? OK...that is three questions in one. I am sure your responses will be interesting.

The person you need to ask is offline at the moment. I will P.M her with a link to this thread, for when she is here next.

[Zephyr]

Disclaimer: I am not a native, nor am I an expert on their ways, but I'll see what I can help with. Painted Wolf is really probably the person to ask on these matters, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Ark

Question 1: Most indigenous people prefer to be called American Indians. Why are they referred to as Native Americans here?

Actually, most I've met prefer to just go by their nation's name. They would be a Puyallup or a Yakima, or even a Native American, before an American Indian. Of course, thats really a personal opinion thing I'd think.

Question 2: Why are multiple faiths referred to as "religions" here?

There is only one Creator, so how can there be more than one religion? Every culture may have its own traditions/ways of expressing unity with the Creator so their faiths may differ in ways, but it is still (supposedly) a faith. None are the total encompassment of religion for which others are diminished. At least not the God/Creator based faiths.

Many faiths and many cultural nicknames for the Creator...but religion is religion.

I'm certain not everybody would agree with what your saying here. Then again, this is coming from a "European Indian" of sorts (Please don't hit me. We're similar in the sense of indigenous faiths).

Question 3: Why is "Mythology" in the same sentence as "Indigenous religions"? Is that some underlying insult? Are Creator based faiths considered inferior or heathen in relation to biblical faith? Is there some new/improved Creator and is he now a book?

Some of these mythologies are pretty much dead religions, or the forums are there just to tell the stories of these ancient cultures. I call my people's stories "mythology" to, and I have the utmost respect for them. It's not in any way inferior.

I hope this helps a bit. Now I will step aside while somebody with some real knowledge hopefully steps in.

[painted wolf]

ok, lets see...

1) well yes, we would like to be called by our nations names.. cherokee and so on, but a group name is often nessisary. Like European, Asian and so on.
However what to call us, actually varies from place to place.
American Indian is generally right out... we arn't from India.
Native American is generally accepted wherever you go in America, Canadians and Mexicans for instanstance arn't so keen on it.
Up in the northern areas Canada and US states near the border tend to prefer FIrst Nations. This is what I tend to use.
We were the first Nations on the land we are still functioning as such today.

2) Religion is by definition a set of beliefs and practices. Every culture has thier own. Christians and Muslims while sharing core beliefs are not the same religion, Cherokee and Lakota are likewise quite different.
Frankly we already have a few forums for all faiths to talk to one another, we wanted seperate areas for people to discuss individual religious practices as well.

3) frankly we tell our beliefs thorough our myths. If I felt there were an insult I would have spoken up and this forum wouldn't be set up as it is.


hope this helps.

wa:do

[Ark]

Originally Posted by nutshell

I'm stopping at question one because I believe your claim is wrong. Most indigenous people do not prefer to be called Americn Indians or Native Americans. Why? Because the term "America" refers to this land post discovery and they were here before that. I believe the current preferred term is "Native Nations."

Yes, we prefer to be regarded by our original tribal name. Apache, Navajo, Comanche, etc. etc. etc. That is a given.

Perhaps I did not word my question correctly, but I was referring to what indigenous people prefer to be called if they have to contend with the general terminology given by the melting-pot. Most that I have known prefer "american Indians" to "Native americans"...in THAT regard.

Of course, some like to refer to themselves as "skins". To me, I like the word "indigenous". It encompasses all "Nations", "Tribes", "Bands", etc. etc. Particularly if the specific tribal affiliation is not known. In my case, for example, I am part Sac n Fox and part Apache.

My Apache elders comprise the remains of the eldest band of Apaches who were massacred several generations ago. They regard all other tribes as being branch tribes of the Apache. So I would prefer regarding all indigenous as "Apaches", but this is not understood by the majority.

[Ark]

Originally Posted by painted wolf

ok, lets see...

1) well yes, we would like to be called by our nations names.. cherokee and so on, but a group name is often nessisary. Like European, Asian and so on.
However what to call us, actually varies from place to place.
American Indian is generally right out... we arn't from India.
Native American is generally accepted wherever you go in America, Canadians and Mexicans for instanstance arn't so keen on it.
Up in the northern areas Canada and US states near the border tend to prefer FIrst Nations. This is what I tend to use.
We were the first Nations on the land we are still functioning as such today.

2) Religion is by definition a set of beliefs and practices. Every culture has thier own. Christians and Muslims while sharing core beliefs are not the same religion, Cherokee and Lakota are likewise quite different.
Frankly we already have a few forums for all faiths to talk to one another, we wanted seperate areas for people to discuss individual religious practices as well.

3) frankly we tell our beliefs thorough our myths. If I felt there were an insult I would have spoken up and this forum wouldn't be set up as it is.


hope this helps.

wa:do

I try not to be too sensitive, but I am sensitive for good reason.

Indigenous children do not need to feel inferior because biblical/european faith is reality based and theirs is based upon myth.
They do NOT need to feel ashamed for what they are and who their ancestors were.

Religion is the relationship between God/Creator/Allah (all are the same...just different names) and the people of this world. There is only one God and one religion. The notion of people comming to this country to "escape religious persecution" hardly equates to the religious authority that they have so proclaimed. Hence...their notion of there being multiple religions is still as ridiculous as it sounds. There are multiple faiths...which are a part of religion. Every spirit/village/culture has had its OWN unique relationship with the Creator. They do not all have a different one, and faith in a false Creator/God is not a part of religion.

The very notion of multiple religions suggests that religion is not based upon anything real...but whatever any person or group cares to imagine it to be.
A good way for human ego to paint the historical picture as they care to and even erase the Creator for their own vanity's sake. But it is not truth.

[painted wolf]

except that Apache, Navajo and Comanche are the "modern" names for the Ndee, Dine'e and Numinu. Natually the true names of the First Nations all mean "origional people" or "true people" or a varient there of, as we all naturally believe that we were the first people and everyone elce came from us.

Its true we all believe in the same creator, but we all practice that faith in differnt ways.
Thus we have different religions.
All a religion is, is a set of rituals and practices unique to your group. Denying that denies our cultural heritage.
The goal of the forums is to celebrate our differences while learning to appreaciate what we all have in common.

I have never said that we should "feel bad" for our faith, or our oral history. I am very proud of my faith and my history. Both genuine and myth. I value Selu for her historal aspects just as much as I do for her mythological ones.
No religion is based on reality any more than any other one is. WE all have myths. (noahs ark, adam and eve and so on)

Just to make this clear, I follow the Aniyunwiya (Tsalagi'/cherokee) religion as much as I am able to, I have the upmost respect for the myths of my people and the oral histories. They teach me and countless generations the values and laws of my ancestors, and how to be a better person today.

ps, "skins" is a derrogitory term, much like the "N word", some may choose to use it, but I never will and I have never met anyone who does.

wa:do

[Ark]

I have read the Bible from an open-minded perspective. Perhaps easier for me to do than most indigenous people, because the remnants of my people were never put on reservations nor are they descendents of children taken to white-Indian schools. In short...we never had "Christianity" shoved down our throats.

Although I think the beginning of the Bible is primarily the "Creation" as viewed by the children of Israel, and not to be taken too literally...I do not consider the Bible to be comprised of myths. I think that the Bible was written by people who had what we refer to as the "knowledge of the greater understanding". I do not think that the biblical writers wrote in the same manner as most....in the manner which the worlds glory is so well-painted.

No insult intended, but much of the information about indigenous people in this "information age" was fabricated by the conquerors who like to lump people together. My people know who they are. They are the eldest of the Apache. They are not "Inde" or a part of some detraction from the insult of being called "Indians" by those who sell the notion that they thought they were in India. In short...I don't buy this type of "information".

I have heard indigenous people refer to themselves as "skins". Is it because of the same reason that African oriented people refer to themselves with the "N" word? Or is it like why some indigenous people carry the U.S. flag (not because they honor it, but to show that they have CAPTURED it)? Perhaps both.

I get the destinct impression from the Bible that it was written in attempt to bring lost souls back to the Creator. My people have always had a relationship to some degree with the Creator. Not in the supposed sense that most people have, that the Creator is some ephemiral entity that exists everywhere etc. But the actual LIVING Creator who they can converse with in person. I know that most others who say they speak to the Creator have mental/emotional issues. It simply isn't true.

The only other people from the "outside" who have spoken to us (with religious knowledge/conviction), were a very few, who refered to themselves as the descendents of the biblical "Wise Men". They have stated to us, (along with a few other statements), that some of them DO live on the continent...but do NOT call themselves "americans".

We have no problem with biblical faith or "Christianity". We simply do not think that legitimate "Christians" are party to any genocidal tendencies. That does not mean that the Apache faith is more legitimate than biblical faith. Just more legitimate than those who lie about having it.

[Feathers in Hair]

Just as a gentle reminder, please keep in mind that this is the 'discuss individual religions' area. Forum rules request that debating be done elsewhere.