plastic shamans (ritual, Earth, missionaries, America, mission)

[painted wolf]

There are a number of fauds out there trying to make a quick buck off Native American religion...

how do you tell if someone is a fraud. Well we have discovered the internet and as a service to those who really want to learn about Native religion there are numerous web pages out there devoted to keeping you informed about who to stay away from.

some helpfull links:
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/links.htm
http://www.geocities.com/ourredearth/plastic.html
http://www.williams.edu/go/native/natreligion.htm

if anyone wants you to give them money for any reason... sweat lodge, a pritty rock, book sales... stay away from them!!

if anyone clames to have learned from an 'old shaman' or similer junk... stay away!

Our culture and our faith is not there to be pillaged, raped and sold...

wa:do

[painted wolf]

more links:

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com.../pay2pray.html
http://www.native-languages.org/religion.htm
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/newage.htm
http://www.suite101.com/linkcategory.cfm/6080/9910

wa:do

[Jaymes]

Thanks for those links PW... they're going straight onto my bookmarks for future reference.

[Feathers in Hair]

Wonderful links, PW! It disgusts me that anyone would lay claim to heritage that's not theirs and then try to 'sell' it.

I'm concerned, sometimes, because I feel I'm 'on the shamanic path', but am not Native American nor do I exclusively follow 'Native spirituality'. I worry a lot, I suppose, about being thought of as a 'plastic shaman'.

[Shadow Wolf]

Thanks for the links.

I hate it when people put on an act of telling you there for a good cause, but it's not. This one Asain group was walking around town a few days ago, and this one guy came into Arbys. He couldn't speak english to save his life, and he hands me this card. This card said that "we are a group of missionaries from Mongolia. We are taking up donations for [I don't remember the cause]. If you have $1's or $5's, it would be appreciated. If you donate big with a big heart, such as $20, you will recieve a heart shaped magnet. If you donate with an even bigger heart, such as $50, you will recieve 4 heart magnets. If you have a really big heart and donate $100, you will get 8 magnets. May God be with you and bless you! Amen!" It really had the amounts, and the "such as" on it. Later on, some girl, who had the same card but spoke very good english came in. Not only did she leave a mess in the lobby, but she had a stack of reciepts from several stores.

[painted wolf]

Just so eveyone knows... this is a reprise of my first post on the Native American area...
It has since dissapreared but I felt it was nessisary and useful, so I redid it.

Feathers- You do not try to represent yourself as anything you are not. You are following your heart and using what you have learned respectfully. You don't try to sell it, or clame that you are a 'native shaman'...so don't worry, I think your ok.

wa:do

[Feathers in Hair]

Whew, okay! *hugs PW*

As you said so eloquently in the other thread, though, you just couldn't sell it, any more than you could sell the wind.

[kreeden]

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

As you said so eloquently in the other thread, though, you just couldn't sell it, any more than you could sell the wind.

Don't give them ideas Feathers ... Give them time and I'm sure that someone will try to sell the Wind .

[michel]

Sadly there are fake 'everythings'; I am sorry people have to try and cash in on your religion Painted Wolf.

[dmerkel]

I was doing some research on plastics and green washing, and came up with this thread on shamans.

I have been very lucky later in my life to have been invited to experience several real native american traditions, as well as several mayan, and a few others. Each was by invitation, and were lead by shamans trained by their counterparts, in one case, for many years prior to his death. These were not whie ego-people on the street who claimed to be shamans or spiritual men, but the genuine article, and the rituals or gatherings were on their spiritual turf. In one case, it was an eagle staff gathering, and I was blessed enough to be one of two other white men among an entire tribe. We sat totally quiet and humble for the ceremony and only participated when asked.

In every case, I asked the question that was commented on in this post - who does this spirituality belong to? In every case, it was made very clear to me it cannot belong to ANYBODY. It was also explained to me the rape of peoples, and the destruction of spiritualities has come over the centuries from all aspects of mankind. Native American and the Mayans are just latest examples. All of us, every human lineage, were once in tribes. All had shamans and holy men or women who gaurded the sacred and ministered to the people. To believe one lineage is somehow by race or color more evil than another will lead to evil itself. The spirits understand do not belong to anyone, but pass thru us. It is not color that make us what we are, but the spirits we ask to pass thru us. None of us are chosen. That very thought is evil.

I know there are two sets of thinking out there. One says don't share that, because it is fragile and will be stolen and bastardized. I beleive this to be totally true if not gaurded. The shamans say this can be used for evil if not used appropriately. I agree, but, the other also says it does not belong to us, and must be shared appropriately if respected, because we are all one. They say the world most certainly will be filled with evil if not shared. I beleive in this also.

The problem is we have shamans, and we have fakirs, and we have demons. It is up to us to know the difference.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
Miigwech
David